Starting RBs next year... thoughts?

[gofurman]

Unfortunately no Morehead.. man, I loved him early in his career

FBS - Gibson is gone... Maples 1st and Abrams behind him?

TBs.. Wynn first (I like Wynn a lot) w// Watkins there too?

Also, do you agree it appears we are featuring TBs more now (less of Gibson up the middle type runs?) ... Or do you think we will have a few more up the middle runs in 2019 as our C and OG play improves.. IE, do you think the shift was mainly due to losing seniors Schmidt and Bush or due to changes we were going to make anyway? Again, I think Neely and Kroeber and Harris will be good - they were just young when Schmidt and Bush left. By asking this question I am noting I think they will be good and improving

[The Jackal]

I doubt we will see a major shift in offensive philosophy. We are still going to run the ball in the middle of the field. It doesn't always get much, but defenses have to defend it and it eventually opens up plays on the edges and down the field.

[AstroDin]

I hate that injuries cut short Morehead career. Saying that there is a lot to love about this years running backs.

Wynn is an extremely versatile tailback, he can run inside, run outside and is a playmaker in the passing game. Wynn had 926 all-purpose yards and seven touchdowns in 2018. Watkins finished 2018 with 435 all-purpose yards, he closed out the season with 78 yards rushing against VMI and 86 against Mercer. Watkins looked very good in the spring.

I expect Wayne Anderson to get plenty of PT unless Furman can go the four-game and redshirt route. Anderson is another running back that can run up the middle, take the corner, and catch the ball. 1,838 all-purpose yards and 20 touchdowns his senior year - I'd call Anderson a dynamic addition.

Maples didn't play in the spring most of the H back play was held down by Abrams and Jeff McElveen. I thought both played well in the spring game. Incoming freshman Domico Roberto had a knee injury early in his senior season. Roberto seems to be a prototype Furman full back. Compact, strong, and athletic my guess he redshirts in 2019. Furman did pick up another running back from Texas Coleman Christensen. Not sure if Christensen is a PWO.

[The Jackal]

I expect it will primarily be the Wynn/Watkins show. Our 3rd TB (last year, Morehead) only had a few touches a game, which likely could be distributed among other backs and even the WRs. It wouldn't shock me to see Thomas Gordon and Dejuan Bell line in the backfield slot position and act as that Morehead-like speed threat in the toss game.

At RB/FB, we averaged only about 12 carries a game from that position. Unlike two years ago (where the FB rarely wasn't on the field), we saw a lot more two TB sets this past season.

Furman's RB position is less of a feature back than in many run-heavy offenses. We need to find about 12 carries a game and 3 yards+ a run. I expect we'll be able to get that between Maples, Abrahms, and one other.

[cavedweller2]

We will run the ball. Our opponent will know we are going to run the ball. We will continue to run the ball. Our opponent will begin to tire. We will continue to run the ball.

[cavedweller2]

DPLOT

And then when the decision is made to throw the ball consternation and dissension will occur among the opponent as they argue and question themselves. Whose man was that? How did he get so open? Did they have 12 men on the field? Did we have 10 men?

And then we will return to running the ball.

[gofurman]

I hope our OL has matured (create holes and pass protect for throws to backs) to where we can run consistently bec I feel we will face stacked boxes until our new QBs prove we can throw consistently. That’s how I would defend us. I can see us vs 8 man in the box defenses when we are on O. I would always do this until a Fr QB beats me several times. Much like we did to Wofford last year!

[apaladin]

Can't wait for the starting QB thread.

[The Jackal]

I hope our OL has matured (create holes and pass protect for throws to backs) to where we can run consistently bec I feel we will face stacked boxes until our new QBs prove we can throw consistently. That’s how I would defend us. I can see us vs 8 man in the box defenses when we are on O. I would always do this until a Fr QB beats me several times. Much like we did to Wofford last year!

Not really that simple, I think. Furman's offense runs through the play action game. The Paladins want to run the ball and hope defenses will stack the box. That's when the Paladin offense really does damage with scheme, personnel, coaching, and execution.

Here's a good example from last year against Mercer. Furman has a second down at the 10-yard line. The Paladins are in "21 personnel" (1 TE, 2 RBs, 2 WRs). Furman has Cam Burnette tight to the formation while Avery Armstrong (who is not much of a pass catching threat) is spread wide. The Paladins also flip an offensive linemen to the left side. The TE (eventual pass catcher) is next to the RG.

Everything about what Furman does on this play sells a run to the left side. The OL cut that way, both RBs run that way, and even Walker runs downfield to block at the second level. They don't even bother blocking the OLB, who is technically the most dangerous man to the play. The OLB doesn't even realize the FB doesn't have the ball until Roberts is throwing the TD pass. Just beautiful football.

Playing against a stacked box isn't going to matter much to this offense. In fact, Furman almost seems to want Mercer to put 8 in the box against them. They got Jake Walker in man coverage against a safety - that's a matchup Furman will take just about every time.

[The Jackal]

Another interesting example.

This is a passing down. Furman brings everyone in tight. Mercer stays in their nickel defense.

This is the same personnel grouping as the other play - two WRs, 1 TE, two RBs. Run based personnel, everyone in tight, and all five guys go out for a pass (instead of just Walker). Mercer's defense lose eye discipline and Alex Deluca slips underneath for a touchdown.

Again, this isn't just about running and stacking the box against the run forcing us to throw. Our offense throws a lot at defenses. As passes go for a D1 QB, I'm not sure it gets much easier than that pass right there. 5 step drop, open receiver right in front of you, no defender within 10 yards of him.

[gofurman]

Agree. Great play. Issue with that game is Mercer had to play a walk-on QB for a half and when they brought their starter/second string in gimpy he brought them back Vs our d in a hurry. It was scary. That and the bowling ball RB they have. Were mashing our D in second half. It became a who can score more west coast game. I hate that. We have to gettt better in pass D. Mercer and WCU torched us if I recall. My recollection is we were doing well v Mercer and they brought in their bad ankle better QB and he changed things. I wonder if we win if he plays whole game. We need to shore up
Pass d !

[The Jackal]

Agree. Great play. Issue with that game is Mercer had to play a walk-on QB for a half and when they brought their starter/second string in gimpy he brought them back Vs our d in a hurry. It was scary. That and the bowling ball RB they have. Were mashing our D in second half. It became a who can score more west coast game. I hate that. We have to gettt better in pass D. Mercer and WCU torched us if I recall. My recollection is we were doing well v Mercer and they brought in their bad ankle better QB and he changed things. I wonder if we win if he plays whole game. We need to shore up
Pass d !

I think there is valid criticism that Furman's pass defense tended to let up a bit late in games. They did against Mercer, WCU, and ETSU. I think it is also worth noting that Furman was usually pretty good at closing games out.

Some of that, I think, is by design. The defense may have loosened a bit with a lead and hoped the opposing offense would run the clock for us by taking 10 or 11 plays to score. That's a valid strategy and will often work. In all three of those games, Furman held double digit leads in the second half.

I would also note that in two of those games - Mercer and WCU - Furman faced a couple of guys that were just playing out of their minds. Tyray Devezin for Mercer and Tyrie Adams at WCU both had career-type nights against us. Against Mercer, even after Riley entered the game, roughly half of all of Mercer's plays were either a handoff or a pass to Devezin. We couldn't do anything with him.

[gofurman]

Agree. Great play. Issue with that game is Mercer had to play a walk-on QB for a half and when they brought their starter/second string in gimpy he brought them back Vs our d in a hurry. It was scary. That and the bowling ball RB they have. Were mashing our D in second half. It became a who can score more west coast game. I hate that. We have to gettt better in pass D. Mercer and WCU torched us if I recall. My recollection is we were doing well v Mercer and they brought in their bad ankle better QB and he changed things. I wonder if we win if he plays whole game. We need to shore up
Pass d !

I think there is valid criticism that Furman's pass defense tended to let up a bit late in games. They did against Mercer, WCU, and ETSU. I think it is also worth noting that Furman was usually pretty good at closing games out.

Some of that, I think, is by design. The defense may have loosened a bit with a lead and hoped the opposing offense would run the clock for us by taking 10 or 11 plays to score. That's a valid strategy and will often work. In all three of those games, Furman held double digit leads in the second half.

I would also note that in two of those games - Mercer and WCU - Furman faced a couple of guys that were just playing out of their minds. Tyray Devezin for Mercer and Tyrie Adams at WCU both had career-type nights against us. Against Mercer, even after Riley entered the game, roughly half of all of Mercer's plays were either a handoff or a pass to Devezin. We couldn't do anything with him.

Agree with both. Glad to see objective criticism that our pass D needs to be better. It does. ETSU we had two issues - one, we couldn't get a first down to run the clock out .. . but also, our D kept allowing first downs ( 5-10 yard pass plays if i recall) and just couldn't stop them - again, with a 'new' QB entering the game in 2nd half. The first half looked like us vs Chatt. ETSU was going nowhere. and we were killing them. Enter QB 2... WHOLE DIFFERENT GAME. We still have a tendency to make opposing QBs look like Joe Montana. That game painfully reminds us how we need to shore up pass D. I do agree that our O was partly to blame as we couldn't get first downs and the D was right back on the field. I hope the new defensive coaches can help with this. I have usually felt our run D was good. Now I would add that we have a good pass rush. We just need that last piece of coverage or we will always have these stressful games

That said, I agree we are much better under CH at closing out games than we were before.

[The Jackal]

Agree. Great play. Issue with that game is Mercer had to play a walk-on QB for a half and when they brought their starter/second string in gimpy he brought them back Vs our d in a hurry. It was scary. That and the bowling ball RB they have. Were mashing our D in second half. It became a who can score more west coast game. I hate that. We have to gettt better in pass D. Mercer and WCU torched us if I recall. My recollection is we were doing well v Mercer and they brought in their bad ankle better QB and he changed things. I wonder if we win if he plays whole game. We need to shore up
Pass d !

I think there is valid criticism that Furman's pass defense tended to let up a bit late in games. They did against Mercer, WCU, and ETSU. I think it is also worth noting that Furman was usually pretty good at closing games out.

Some of that, I think, is by design. The defense may have loosened a bit with a lead and hoped the opposing offense would run the clock for us by taking 10 or 11 plays to score. That's a valid strategy and will often work. In all three of those games, Furman held double digit leads in the second half.

I would also note that in two of those games - Mercer and WCU - Furman faced a couple of guys that were just playing out of their minds. Tyray Devezin for Mercer and Tyrie Adams at WCU both had career-type nights against us. Against Mercer, even after Riley entered the game, roughly half of all of Mercer's plays were either a handoff or a pass to Devezin. We couldn't do anything with him.

Agree with both. Glad to see objective criticism that our pass D needs to be better. It does. ETSU we had two issues - one, we couldn't get a first down to run the clock out .. . but also, our D kept allowing first downs ( 5-10 yard pass plays if i recall) and just couldn't stop them - again, with a 'new' QB entering the game in 2nd half. The first half looked like us vs Chatt. ETSU was going nowhere. and we were killing them. Enter QB 2... WHOLE DIFFERENT GAME. We still have a tendency to make opposing QBs look like Joe Montana. That game painfully reminds us how we need to shore up pass D. I do agree that our O was partly to blame as we couldn't get first downs and the D was right back on the field. I hope the new defensive coaches can help with this. I have usually felt our run D was good. Now I would add that we have a good pass rush. We just need that last piece of coverage or we will always have these stressful games

That said, I agree we are much better under CH at closing out games than we were before.

Yes, our defense could be better. In fact, every defense on every team in football can be better. There's always room for improvement.

What I am saying - and have said literally for years - is that some of these "defenses lapses" are by design. Against ETSU, Furman had a three touchdown lead in the 3rd Q. Most competent offenses are going to have 4 drives every quarter. So, up 27-6 midway through the 3rd Q, Furman's defensive staff knows that ETSU is probably going to have to score 3 touchdowns on 6 offensive drives they are likely to get the rest of the game just to tie it. If Furman scores one time during that stretch, game over. To that point, ETSU had notched 2 field goals on their 8 previous offensive drives - odds are good.

In that scenario, the only thing Furman cannot afford to do is (1) allow big chunk plays and (2) not run the clock on offense. We did both.

Furman gave up at least two 50+ yard pass plays after Herink entered the game. I'd be surprised if we gave up a 50+ yard pass play all season, much less two in about 5 minutes of game time. We whiffed on a tackle on a 3rd down pass that led to a big gainer. More than that, our offense did bupkiss the entire fourth quarter.

I don't have any gripe with the game plan at the end of the ETSU game. Our defense loosened up in hopes that ETSU would try and dink and dunk their way down the field and burn clock. It is a sound strategy because the coaching staff could not possibly have anticipated that our offense would just disappear for 12 minutes.

So yes, I have to push back when people criticize our pass defense simply because they gave up yards. Yards don't matter when you are leading by 21 in the 3rd quarter - points do and the clock does. Many times, we give up yards in that scenario because that's what the defense is designed to do - surrender yards and not points. The ETSU game was just a perfect storm of poor execution on both sides of the ball.

[FUBeAR]

Agree. Great play. Issue with that game is Mercer had to play a walk-on QB for a half and when they brought their starter/second string in gimpy he brought them back Vs our d in a hurry. It was scary. That and the bowling ball RB they have. Were mashing our D in second half. It became a who can score more west coast game. I hate that. We have to gettt better in pass D. Mercer and WCU torched us if I recall. My recollection is we were doing well v Mercer and they brought in their bad ankle better QB and he changed things. I wonder if we win if he plays whole game. We need to shore up
Pass d !

I think there is valid criticism that Furman's pass defense tended to let up a bit late in games. They did against Mercer, WCU, and ETSU. I think it is also worth noting that Furman was usually pretty good at closing games out.

Some of that, I think, is by design. The defense may have loosened a bit with a lead and hoped the opposing offense would run the clock for us by taking 10 or 11 plays to score. That's a valid strategy and will often work. In all three of those games, Furman held double digit leads in the second half.

I would also note that in two of those games - Mercer and WCU - Furman faced a couple of guys that were just playing out of their minds. Tyray Devezin for Mercer and Tyrie Adams at WCU both had career-type nights against us. Against Mercer, even after Riley entered the game, roughly half of all of Mercer's plays were either a handoff or a pass to Devezin. We couldn't do anything with him.

Agree with both. Glad to see objective criticism that our pass D needs to be better. It does. ETSU we had two issues - one, we couldn't get a first down to run the clock out .. . but also, our D kept allowing first downs ( 5-10 yard pass plays if i recall) and just couldn't stop them - again, with a 'new' QB entering the game in 2nd half. The first half looked like us vs Chatt. ETSU was going nowhere. and we were killing them. Enter QB 2... WHOLE DIFFERENT GAME. We still have a tendency to make opposing QBs look like Joe Montana. That game painfully reminds us how we need to shore up pass D. I do agree that our O was partly to blame as we couldn't get first downs and the D was right back on the field. I hope the new defensive coaches can help with this. I have usually felt our run D was good. Now I would add that we have a good pass rush. We just need that last piece of coverage or we will always have these stressful games

That said, I agree we are much better under CH at closing out games than we were before.

Yes, our defense could be better. In fact, every defense on every team in football can be better. There's always room for improvement.

What I am saying - and have said literally for years - is that some of these "defenses lapses" are by design. Against ETSU, Furman had a three touchdown lead in the 3rd Q. Most competent offenses are going to have 4 drives every quarter. So, up 27-6 midway through the 3rd Q, Furman's defensive staff knows that ETSU is probably going to have to score 3 touchdowns on 6 offensive drives they are likely to get the rest of the game just to tie it. If Furman scores one time during that stretch, game over. To that point, ETSU had notched 2 field goals on their 8 previous offensive drives - odds are good.

In that scenario, the only thing Furman cannot afford to do is (1) allow big chunk plays and (2) not run the clock on offense. We did both.

Furman gave up at least two 50+ yard pass plays after Herink entered the game. I'd be surprised if we gave up a 50+ yard pass play all season, much less two in about 5 minutes of game time. We whiffed on a tackle on a 3rd down pass that led to a big gainer. More than that, our offense did bupkiss the entire fourth quarter.

I don't have any gripe with the game plan at the end of the ETSU game. Our defense loosened up in hopes that ETSU would try and dink and dunk their way down the field and burn clock. It is a sound strategy because the coaching staff could not possibly have anticipated that our offense would just disappear for 12 minutes.

So yes, I have to push back when people criticize our pass defense simply because they gave up yards. Yards don't matter when you are leading by 21 in the 3rd quarter - points do and the clock does. Many times, we give up yards in that scenario because that's what the defense is designed to do - surrender yards and not points. The ETSU game was just a perfect storm of poor execution on both sides of the ball.

What? Did you run out of TD's against Mercer to post?