Who is Furman's Rival?

[HiHiYikas]

I’m confused.

I thought Appy dropped Football, along with GaSou & Marsha. I know all 3 of them formerly were often mentioned in NCAA Division 1 National Championship discussions, but I just don’t hear about them anymore. Maybe they dropped to D3 or NAIA. Not sure.

Why are they being mentioned in a thread about Furman’s rivals? If they still have Teams, I would imagine their rivals are New Mexico Military Institute, Eastern Southwestern Louisiana A&M Tech, and Ohio Wesleyan...respectively. Certainly not, respectfully.

Actually all three teams are playing in D1 conferences with better overall talent than the SoCon. That's not me knocking on the Socon, it's merely an honest opinion. I have no doubt there are some FCS programs that could compete for titles in the CUSA, or even the Sun Belt, but there are less than a handful, and they don't hale from conferences headquartered in Sparkle City. Maybe you folks can fix that soon, already.

[FUBeAR]

I’m confused.

I thought Appy dropped Football, along with GaSou & Marsha. I know all 3 of them formerly were often mentioned in NCAA Division 1 National Championship discussions, but I just don’t hear about them anymore. Maybe they dropped to D3 or NAIA. Not sure.

Why are they being mentioned in a thread about Furman’s rivals? If they still have Teams, I would imagine their rivals are New Mexico Military Institute, Eastern Southwestern Louisiana A&M Tech, and Ohio Wesleyan...respectively. Certainly not, respectfully.

Actually all three teams are playing in D1 conferences

Wow. Who knew?

[The Jackal]

I’m confused.

I thought Appy dropped Football, along with GaSou & Marsha. I know all 3 of them formerly were often mentioned in NCAA Division 1 National Championship discussions, but I just don’t hear about them anymore. Maybe they dropped to D3 or NAIA. Not sure.

Why are they being mentioned in a thread about Furman’s rivals? If they still have Teams, I would imagine their rivals are New Mexico Military Institute, Eastern Southwestern Louisiana A&M Tech, and Ohio Wesleyan...respectively. Certainly not, respectfully.

Actually all three teams are playing in D1 conferences with better overall talent than the SoCon. That's not me knocking on the Socon, it's merely an honest opinion. I have no doubt there are some FCS programs that could compete for titles in the CUSA, or even the Sun Belt, but there are less than a handful, and they don't hale from conferences headquartered in Sparkle City. Maybe you folks can fix that soon, already.

I don’t necessarily disagree that with 80+ scholarships per team the talent will probably be better than the SoCon. I do not think the talent gap is particularly wide, though.

I mean, I watched Georiga State play a mediocre FCS team last year and lose. I think GSU made a bowl game. Maybe they got monumentally better, but I would not put GSU anywhere near as talented as some of the SoCon clubs.

My question has never been about the overall talent of the league, but more about the good sense of increasing your athletic expenditures by some $7m (I think that was the reported case with Georgia Southern) without any real uptick in revenue and to play only marginally better competition. I don’t think Georgia Southern, for instance, has any more national exposure today than they did pre-2013. In fact, probably less.

[Jasper]

I’m confused.

I thought Appy dropped Football, along with GaSou & Marsha. I know all 3 of them formerly were often mentioned in NCAA Division 1 National Championship discussions, but I just don’t hear about them anymore. Maybe they dropped to D3 or NAIA. Not sure.

Why are they being mentioned in a thread about Furman’s rivals? If they still have Teams, I would imagine their rivals are New Mexico Military Institute, Eastern Southwestern Louisiana A&M Tech, and Ohio Wesleyan...respectively. Certainly not, respectfully.

Actually all three teams are playing in D1 conferences with better overall talent than the SoCon. That's not me knocking on the Socon, it's merely an honest opinion. I have no doubt there are some FCS programs that could compete for titles in the CUSA, or even the Sun Belt, but there are less than a handful, and they don't hale from conferences headquartered in Sparkle City. Maybe you folks can fix that soon, already.

I don’t necessarily disagree that with 80+ scholarships per team the talent will probably be better than the SoCon. I do not think the talent gap is particularly wide, though.

I mean, I watched Georiga State play a mediocre FCS team last year and lose. I think GSU made a bowl game. Maybe they got monumentally better, but I would not put GSU anywhere near as talented as some of the SoCon clubs.

My question has never been about the overall talent of the league, but more about the good sense of increasing your athletic expenditures by some $7m (I think that was the reported case with Georgia Southern) without any real uptick in revenue and to play only marginally better competition. I don’t think Georgia Southern, for instance, has any more national exposure today than they did pre-2013. In fact, probably less.

I too would love to hear an answer to that question. I cannot fathom why a school would spend so much more money on its football program without getting any obvious benefit. There must be some hidden benefit because so many schools like App State and GSU have done it in recent years. I cant believe that either of those schools are happier finishing in the middle of a mediocre FBS league than they would be if getting all the pub of NDSU for instance. The sad thing is that they were NDSU before NDSU was. Appy beating Michigan is so epic a sports memory mostly BECAUSE they were an FCS school beating a titan - the old David and Goliath thang. The only reason I can come up with is that they feel they will dominate the lower FCS league and then be invited into a Power 5 conference so as to rake in the big bucks. Better chance buying a handful of lottery tickets IMO.

[The Jackal]

I’m confused.

I thought Appy dropped Football, along with GaSou & Marsha. I know all 3 of them formerly were often mentioned in NCAA Division 1 National Championship discussions, but I just don’t hear about them anymore. Maybe they dropped to D3 or NAIA. Not sure.

Why are they being mentioned in a thread about Furman’s rivals? If they still have Teams, I would imagine their rivals are New Mexico Military Institute, Eastern Southwestern Louisiana A&M Tech, and Ohio Wesleyan...respectively. Certainly not, respectfully.

Actually all three teams are playing in D1 conferences with better overall talent than the SoCon. That's not me knocking on the Socon, it's merely an honest opinion. I have no doubt there are some FCS programs that could compete for titles in the CUSA, or even the Sun Belt, but there are less than a handful, and they don't hale from conferences headquartered in Sparkle City. Maybe you folks can fix that soon, already.

I don’t necessarily disagree that with 80+ scholarships per team the talent will probably be better than the SoCon. I do not think the talent gap is particularly wide, though.

I mean, I watched Georiga State play a mediocre FCS team last year and lose. I think GSU made a bowl game. Maybe they got monumentally better, but I would not put GSU anywhere near as talented as some of the SoCon clubs.

My question has never been about the overall talent of the league, but more about the good sense of increasing your athletic expenditures by some $7m (I think that was the reported case with Georgia Southern) without any real uptick in revenue and to play only marginally better competition. I don’t think Georgia Southern, for instance, has any more national exposure today than they did pre-2013. In fact, probably less.

I too would love to hear an answer to that question. I cannot fathom why a school would spend so much more money on its football program without getting any obvious benefit. There must be some hidden benefit because so many schools like App State and GSU have done it in recent years. I cant believe that either of those schools are happier finishing in the middle of a mediocre FBS league than they would be if getting all the pub of NDSU for instance. The sad thing is that they were NDSU before NDSU was. Appy beating Michigan is so epic a sports memory mostly BECAUSE they were an FCS school beating a titan - the old David and Goliath thang. The only reason I can come up with is that they feel they will dominate the lower FCS league and then be invited into a Power 5 conference so as to rake in the big bucks. Better chance buying a handful of lottery tickets IMO.

Personal opinion - there's a pride factor. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Some of these schools want to visualize themselves as being a peer with the larger flagship universities in their state. They aren't, but their fans want to see themselves that way. Furman does not suffer from this complex. I think a few of our former brethren saw playing smaller liberal arts colleges as "beneath" their stature of large state run institutions. Football is football, though.

From a financial standpoint, I've never understood it. I'm sure the league members get more TV revenues than they did in the in SoCon, but the travel costs have to be outrageous. My sister in law attended Texas State, and I've been to a game out there. I cannot fathom what it costs for Georgia Southern to relocate a football team to San Marcos for a conference football game.

Look at the Eagles schedule next season. They play back to back road games at Texas State and New Mexico State (who the SunBelt just kicked out). These are not money games. Two weeks later they play at UL-Monroe, which is over 700 miles away for another conference game. And that isn't just football either. That's every sport.

What's bizarre, in my view, is that when you look at the schedule it looks pretty much like an FCS schedule you might expect from the SoCon, OVC, or Southland. An ACC money game, a winnable home game against a lesser FCS program, and a bunch of former FCS teams, many of whom they were already playing while a member of the SoCon.

[Jasper]

I’m confused.

I thought Appy dropped Football, along with GaSou & Marsha. I know all 3 of them formerly were often mentioned in NCAA Division 1 National Championship discussions, but I just don’t hear about them anymore. Maybe they dropped to D3 or NAIA. Not sure.

Why are they being mentioned in a thread about Furman’s rivals? If they still have Teams, I would imagine their rivals are New Mexico Military Institute, Eastern Southwestern Louisiana A&M Tech, and Ohio Wesleyan...respectively. Certainly not, respectfully.

Actually all three teams are playing in D1 conferences with better overall talent than the SoCon. That's not me knocking on the Socon, it's merely an honest opinion. I have no doubt there are some FCS programs that could compete for titles in the CUSA, or even the Sun Belt, but there are less than a handful, and they don't hale from conferences headquartered in Sparkle City. Maybe you folks can fix that soon, already.

I don’t necessarily disagree that with 80+ scholarships per team the talent will probably be better than the SoCon. I do not think the talent gap is particularly wide, though.

I mean, I watched Georiga State play a mediocre FCS team last year and lose. I think GSU made a bowl game. Maybe they got monumentally better, but I would not put GSU anywhere near as talented as some of the SoCon clubs.

My question has never been about the overall talent of the league, but more about the good sense of increasing your athletic expenditures by some $7m (I think that was the reported case with Georgia Southern) without any real uptick in revenue and to play only marginally better competition. I don’t think Georgia Southern, for instance, has any more national exposure today than they did pre-2013. In fact, probably less.

I too would love to hear an answer to that question. I cannot fathom why a school would spend so much more money on its football program without getting any obvious benefit. There must be some hidden benefit because so many schools like App State and GSU have done it in recent years. I cant believe that either of those schools are happier finishing in the middle of a mediocre FBS league than they would be if getting all the pub of NDSU for instance. The sad thing is that they were NDSU before NDSU was. Appy beating Michigan is so epic a sports memory mostly BECAUSE they were an FCS school beating a titan - the old David and Goliath thang. The only reason I can come up with is that they feel they will dominate the lower FCS league and then be invited into a Power 5 conference so as to rake in the big bucks. Better chance buying a handful of lottery tickets IMO.

Personal opinion - there's a pride factor. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Some of these schools want to visualize themselves as being a peer with the larger flagship universities in their state. They aren't, but their fans want to see themselves that way. Furman does not suffer from this complex. I think a few of our former brethren saw playing smaller liberal arts colleges as "beneath" their stature of large state run institutions. Football is football, though.

From a financial standpoint, I've never understood it. I'm sure the league members get more TV revenues than they did in the in SoCon, but the travel costs have to be outrageous. My sister in law attended Texas State, and I've been to a game out there. I cannot fathom what it costs for Georgia Southern to relocate a football team to San Marcos for a conference football game.

Look at the Eagles schedule next season. They play back to back road games at Texas State and New Mexico State (who the SunBelt just kicked out). These are not money games. Two weeks later they play at UL-Monroe, which is over 700 miles away for another conference game. And that isn't just football either. That's every sport.

What's bizarre, in my view, is that when you look at the schedule it looks pretty much like an FCS schedule you might expect from the SoCon, OVC, or Southland. An ACC money game, a winnable home game against a lesser FCS program, and a bunch of former FCS teams, many of whom they were already playing while a member of the SoCon.

I think that kind of pride should be spelled S T U P I D. I'm going to ask Mike Budde about the economics of it all the next time I see him.

[The Jackal]

This is a good resource from last year (before GSU had a horrific football season and fired their head coach - again). http://www.thegeorgeanne.com/sports/art ... d5541.html

GSU's athletic budget increased $11m since 2010 and $8m from their last year in the SoCon. Not only do you have to add 22 more scholarships to football, but you also have to increase those for women's sports as well via Title IX. You then add the increased travel cost, basically having to fly to every game regardless of the sport. Think about recruiting, too, and the increased costs on that budget.

That's how you nearly double your entire athletic budget in 5 years.

But yes, the pride factor is palpable. See this quote:

“The hope was that because we are more on the forefront of the national media, playing the Georgia’s and the Georgia Techs of the world rather than the Furman and the Citadels of the world, that more students would be attracted to Georgia Southern, and thus the enrollment would go up,” Blythe said.

The reason for all of this? Larger national prominence and increased enrollment. The reality? GSU's student body increased by 156 students over a 3 year span. That is, they aren't increasing squat except their expenses and the number in the loss column.

[Jasper]

I assume that whoever Mr. Blythe is, he has been fired - or mercifully shot. Georgia is "more on the forefront of national media"????? Wonder just what nation that is and what world these people live in. One in which the taxpayers foot the bill I presume.

[FUBeAR]

The reality? GSU's student body increased by 156 students over a 3 year span. That is, they aren't increasing squat except their expenses and the number in the loss column.

Couldn’t happen to a ‘better’ crowd.

Well, maybe marsha, but I was away during their ‘glory’ years. Their fans were just lovable drunks in my visits up there (late 70’s/early 80’s) & their players (most of them) were overachieving mountain boys...that lost about every game...badly.

[AlValonge]

I can take losing to anyone but Citadel and Wofford... All things are well in this beautiful state when we beat them. I do miss the fistfights with GSU and Appy, but our rival will always be the Citadel and Woffy in my heart. We need to turn it on and get a good string going these teams because we have slipped mightily of late (however, the Citadel game last year was SPECTACULAR)!

[FUBeAR]

I can take losing to anyone but Citadel and Wofford... All things are well in this beautiful state when we beat them. I do miss the fistfights with GSU and Appy, but our rival will always be the Citadel and Woffy in my heart. We need to turn it on and get a good string going these teams because we have slipped mightily of late (however, the Citadel game last year was SPECTACULAR)!

Yep...

...REAL & SPECTACULAR!

[Paul C]

love a good Seinfeld reference FUbear!

[FUBeAR]

love a good Seinfeld reference FUbear!

Thanks, but a gif post was the response we were looking for...



Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.