With just a little more depth FU would dominate the SoCon

[FurmanFan23]

Apaladin I hope booster never read this forum. From your perspective, Timmons will never get fundraised.

*Boosters

[FU Hoopla]

There is a great discussion about Timmons Arena on of all places, the Timmons Arena thread.

And of all places here too, imagine that
If you had read through this thread you would understand the Timmons connection, the timing is interesting as well

[FU Hoopla]

Message to all the recruits out there

[Furmanoid]

The facility is an issue. But I think there’s a much bigger issue. I just looked at the Kenpom. Aside from a couple of Ivy’s and Vanderbilt around 90 or so, I’m not sure there’s another top 100 team with any academic standards at all. Maybe Purdue. Maybe Northwestern. Duke and UNC? Give me a break.

So is it really doable to be much better than we are right now and maintain our standards?

Evidently, it was FUBeAR who wrote the following, which probably explains how academically-highly-esteemed places like Virginia, Indiana, Michigan, Wake Forest, Stanford can continue to thrive:
"At the P5 level, in almost all cases, the Admissions Standards for non-athletes are irrelevant for athletes."

"With the ever-increasing NIL cash available, which, in actuality, has become nothing but “pay to play” at the P5 level, FUBeAR expects that whatever minimal admission standards are in place at P5 schools now will further and rapidly erode to nearly none."

Richmond and Davidson are not Power 5 unless A-10 is Power 5, which I do not believe to be the case. I would be surprised to learn that Richmond and Davidson are presently places where the Admissions Standards for non-athletes are irrelevant for athletes. I acknowledge the fact that, at present, Furman is rated above those 2 fine academic institutions in basketball.

So let’s say we’re in a club with Davidson and Richmond. Richmond is 102, we’re 108 and Davidson is 146. That bolsters my argument pretty well. I don’t think any of these teams are going to get much better, at least not consistently.

Football is a little different. There are way more smart football players to found. And a smart football team can use superior execution and scheme to defeat more talented teams. In basketball everybody does about the same thing. You don’t see anybody running a motion offense or anything like that. It takes a mean coach to teach those offenses, and in 2023 nobody will play for a mean coach. So the team with the most talented players wins no matter how dumb they are.

I think there may be 1/2 dozen big time programs that let academics impact major sports. I’m thinking Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Army, Navy, Air Force, maybe BYU. That’s about it.

[FU Hoopla]

The facility is an issue. But I think there’s a much bigger issue. I just looked at the Kenpom. Aside from a couple of Ivy’s and Vanderbilt around 90 or so, I’m not sure there’s another top 100 team with any academic standards at all. Maybe Purdue. Maybe Northwestern. Duke and UNC? Give me a break.

So is it really doable to be much better than we are right now and maintain our standards?

Evidently, it was FUBeAR who wrote the following, which probably explains how academically-highly-esteemed places like Virginia, Indiana, Michigan, Wake Forest, Stanford can continue to thrive:
"At the P5 level, in almost all cases, the Admissions Standards for non-athletes are irrelevant for athletes."

"With the ever-increasing NIL cash available, which, in actuality, has become nothing but “pay to play” at the P5 level, FUBeAR expects that whatever minimal admission standards are in place at P5 schools now will further and rapidly erode to nearly none."

Richmond and Davidson are not Power 5 unless A-10 is Power 5, which I do not believe to be the case. I would be surprised to learn that Richmond and Davidson are presently places where the Admissions Standards for non-athletes are irrelevant for athletes. I acknowledge the fact that, at present, Furman is rated above those 2 fine academic institutions in basketball.

So let’s say we’re in a club with Davidson and Richmond. Richmond is 102, we’re 108 and Davidson is 146. That bolsters my argument pretty well. I don’t think any of these teams are going to get much better, at least not consistently.

Football is a little different. There are way more smart football players to found. And a smart football team can use superior execution and scheme to defeat more talented teams. In basketball everybody does about the same thing. You don’t see anybody running a motion offense or anything like that. It takes a mean coach to teach those offenses, and in 2023 nobody will play for a mean coach. So the team with the most talented players wins no matter how dumb they are.

I think there may be 1/2 dozen big time programs that let academics impact major sports. I’m thinking Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Army, Navy, Air Force, maybe BYU. That’s about it.

Does your 'common sense' not tell you a better home court facility gives us a better chance at becoming a more successful basketball program? Are you really trying to make an argument against renovating Timmons? You can't be serious, I mean really, you can't be serious.

Do you ever look at verbal commits during the course of the recruiting season, some of the guys we have been in the running for have gone on to have fabulous careers at other schools like Belmont ect. ect., these are guys we can get, these are guys that will make us deeper and better, the more impressive we become ie. better facility's and more NCAA apperances the more attractive we will be to them, I mean it really is just pure common sense.

[Furmanoid]

Timmons isn’t as good as USC Aiken’s place. If it can be fixed, then we should fix it. I’m not saying it won’t help us pull in some guys we’re recruiting. I’m saying that it won’t make a huge difference. The guys we recruit aren’t gonna get us higher than 80 or so unless maybe we get ALL of them, and we aren’t gonna get all of them even with an improved Timmons.

So fix up Timmons. But don’t expect too much. I worry about your expectations being too high. That said, we should win the SoCon even if we play at at Berea High.

Belmont’s place is multipurpose. Is it really that much better than Timmons?

[FurmanFan23]

Of course renovating Timmons would lead to better players and a better overall experience. I want the best for the student athletes and renovating Timmons leads to that. Both the Mens and woman’s teams deserve it!

[FurmanFan23]

Expectations should be high. You get nothing in life if u don’t shoot high. High Ambition is something that should never be criticized.

[FU Hoopla]

Timmons isn’t as good as USC Aiken’s place. If it can be fixed, then we should fix it. I’m not saying it won’t help us pull in some guys we’re recruiting. I’m saying that it won’t make a huge difference. The guys we recruit aren’t gonna get us higher than 80 or so unless maybe we get ALL of them, and we aren’t gonna get all of them even with an improved Timmons.

So fix up Timmons. But don’t expect too much. I worry about your expectations being too high. That said, we should win the SoCon even if we play at at Berea High.

Belmont’s place is multipurpose. Is it really that much better than Timmons?

Belmont's arena is better, but of course we will soon blow it out of the water.

My expectations are to average 3k-4k for home games, play in the A10 eventually and get to the NCAA's every other year on average, personally I don't think that is too much to expect.
FU is a beautiful school with great academic standing, placed in a growing city that has a nice downtown area and larger venue for 'special games'. Currently we have a strong coaching staff and AD pushing forward. We have winning in our DNA for the past 8 years and soon to come new found NCAA appearances. Also soon to be newly renovated, sparkling Timmons arena.
Being honest, all of that was unimaginable just 9 short years ago.

[FurmanFan23]

Couldn’t have said it better Hoopla

[Affirm]

The facility is an issue. But I think there’s a much bigger issue. I just looked at the Kenpom. Aside from a couple of Ivy’s and Vanderbilt around 90 or so, I’m not sure there’s another top 100 team with any academic standards at all. Maybe Purdue. Maybe Northwestern. Duke and UNC? Give me a break.

So is it really doable to be much better than we are right now and maintain our standards?

Evidently, it was FUBeAR who wrote the following, which probably explains how academically-highly-esteemed places like Virginia, Indiana, Michigan, Wake Forest, Stanford can continue to thrive:
"At the P5 level, in almost all cases, the Admissions Standards for non-athletes are irrelevant for athletes."

"With the ever-increasing NIL cash available, which, in actuality, has become nothing but “pay to play” at the P5 level, FUBeAR expects that whatever minimal admission standards are in place at P5 schools now will further and rapidly erode to nearly none."

Richmond and Davidson are not Power 5 unless A-10 is Power 5, which I do not believe to be the case. I would be surprised to learn that Richmond and Davidson are presently places where the Admissions Standards for non-athletes are irrelevant for athletes. I acknowledge the fact that, at present, Furman is rated above those 2 fine academic institutions in basketball.

So let’s say we’re in a club with Davidson and Richmond. Richmond is 102, we’re 108 and Davidson is 146. That bolsters my argument pretty well. I don’t think any of these teams are going to get much better, at least not consistently.

Football is a little different. There are way more smart football players to found. And a smart football team can use superior execution and scheme to defeat more talented teams. In basketball everybody does about the same thing. You don’t see anybody running a motion offense or anything like that. It takes a mean coach to teach those offenses, and in 2023 nobody will play for a mean coach. So the team with the most talented players wins no matter how dumb they are.

I think there may be 1/2 dozen big time programs that let academics impact major sports. I’m thinking Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Army, Navy, Air Force, maybe BYU. That’s about it.

Yes, we are somewhat "in a club with Davidson and Richmond". "Richmond is 102, we’re 108 and Davidson is 146. That bolsters my argument pretty well. I don’t think any of these teams are going to get much better, at least not consistently."
I'm not sure what your argument is that has been bolstered, unless it it that you are saying schools like Furman, Richmond, and Davidson are already about at the highest level of competitiveness that they can get. I do not fully agree with that, but it does have some truth. The task ahead of Furman is to just stay at the level it has climbed to over the last 5-6 years.
Regarding the "club", Davidson and Richmond, along with Holy Cross, Colgate, Bucknell, and Lafayette, are the 6 Division I schools among the 22 schools that Furman considers its "self-selected peer colleges". All of the schools, including those 6 are liberal arts schools with similar size and similar academic missions. The 6, including Davidson and Richmond, have FCS football as part of their Division I NCAA status.
It is notable that Furman's endowment, listed as $670 million, is approximately only 50% of the endowment of Davidson (which is a slightly smaller school than Furman) and is approximately only 20% of the endowment of Richmond.

[Furmanoid]

Yes my point is that the FU’s of the world probably need to be satisfied with occasional appearances in the top 90. Timmons renovation might help marginally, but I think the talent deficit is very difficult to fix without abandoning our sort of quaint attachment to academic integrity. Maybe CBR can go back to the drawing board and invent a new scheme that works better for our kind of guy- maybe some sort of updated version of motion that takes smart kids. Or maybe straight up run and gun. Or maybe we can come up with a scientific way at to optimize portal usage. But right now we seem to be doing pretty much what everybody else does and if they have better players, they’re gonna win.

The good news is that the NCAA tournament isn’t completely hung up on merit, so all we have to do is win a few games in March and we’re in. Once you’re in, who knows? We aren’t BAD. If we have back to back to back good shooting nights anything can happen.

[Affirm]

Yes my point is that the FU’s of the world probably need to be satisfied with occasional appearances in the top 90. Timmons renovation might help marginally, but I think the talent deficit is very difficult to fix without abandoning our sort of quaint attachment to academic integrity. Maybe CBR can go back to the drawing board and invent a new scheme that works better for our kind of guy- maybe some sort of updated version of motion that takes smart kids. Or maybe straight up run and gun. Or maybe we can come up with a scientific way at to optimize portal usage. But right now we seem to be doing pretty much what everybody else does and if they have better players, they’re gonna win.

The good news is that the NCAA tournament isn’t completely hung up on merit, so all we have to do is win a few games in March and we’re in. Once you’re in, who knows? We aren’t BAD. If we have back to back to back good shooting nights anything can happen.

Yes to occasional appearances in top 90, 80, 70, maybe 60. We already are accustomed to 43 years between SoCon championships. By occasionally in the top 90, 80, 70, 60, I certainly do not mean 43 years. More like every 4 or 5 years.
I hope we’ll end up the present season in the top 60. We’ll know by 8 weeks and 4 days from now, maybe by less than 7 weeks from now.

[Affirm]

Yes my point is that the FU’s of the world probably need to be satisfied with occasional appearances in the top 90. Timmons renovation might help marginally, but I think the talent deficit is very difficult to fix without abandoning our sort of quaint attachment to academic integrity. Maybe CBR can go back to the drawing board and invent a new scheme that works better for our kind of guy- maybe some sort of updated version of motion that takes smart kids. Or maybe straight up run and gun. Or maybe we can come up with a scientific way at to optimize portal usage. But right now we seem to be doing pretty much what everybody else does and if they have better players, they’re gonna win.

The good news is that the NCAA tournament isn’t completely hung up on merit, so all we have to do is win a few games in March and we’re in. Once you’re in, who knows? We aren’t BAD. If we have back to back to back good shooting nights anything can happen.

Sarcastic, pejorative, derogatory is sometimes (only sometimes, not always) the way in which the word “quaint” is used. I hope that you did not mean it in that sense when you wrote “…our sort of ‘quaint’ attachment to academic integrity.”

[Furmanoid]

Quaint means unusual or old fashioned.