• Caleb Mills

 #35084  by DungeonRealm
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:44 am
Not sure why this is even in discussion honestly, Mills is just going to go to another big school
Roundball liked this
 #35089  by apaladin
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:28 pm
DungeonRealm wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:44 am
Not sure why this is even in discussion honestly, Mills is just going to go to another big school
Of course, if he wants to be close to home(Swannanoa, NC) Wake Forest is fairly close. As long as he doesn’t go to Clempson.
 #35092  by Furmanoid
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:04 pm
DungeonRealm wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:32 am
apaladin wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:57 am
What freshman is ready to play? Just asking.
Oh your asking about current roster, well Hien has had some good flashes
I think Hein is going to be very good. I think he’s already very good. But I’m starting to worry that none of the other Freshmen have a ton of potential. And I think the Freshmen would kill the Sophomores! So it just doesn’t look like recruiting is going so great that we shouldn’t at least consider getting some transfers.

But this particular transfer is probably out of our league.
 #35094  by PaladinPower
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:48 pm
Furmanoid wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:04 pm
DungeonRealm wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:32 am
apaladin wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:57 am
What freshman is ready to play? Just asking.
Oh your asking about current roster, well Hien has had some good flashes
I think Hein is going to be very good. I think he’s already very good. But I’m starting to worry that none of the other Freshmen have a ton of potential. And I think the Freshmen would kill the Sophomores! So it just doesn’t look like recruiting is going so great that we shouldn’t at least consider getting some transfers.

But this particular transfer is probably out of our league.
Strongly disagree. Here are some numbers of various players after their freshman season.

Lyons: 5.9 pts, 1.4 reb, 1.1 assists
Andrew Brown: 3.3 pts, 2.2 reb, .9 assists
Mounce: 5 pts, 2.9 reb, .4 assists
Hunter: 3.2 pts, 1.5 reb, 1.1 assists
Acox: 3.7 pts, 4.8 reb, .4 assists
John Davis III: 3.8 pts, 1.3 reb, 1.4 assists

The only freshmen to put in quality stats and minutes over the years are Gurley, Rafferty, and Sibley. I don't really know what you are looking for in terms of this freshman bench production because by your standards, all of the above guys would have no potential. We see how they turned out.
FUpaladin08, Jasper and 1 others liked this
 #35097  by Furmanoid
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:10 pm
PaladinPower wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:48 pm
Furmanoid wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:04 pm
DungeonRealm wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:32 am
apaladin wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:57 am
What freshman is ready to play? Just asking.
Oh your asking about current roster, well Hien has had some good flashes
I think Hein is going to be very good. I think he’s already very good. But I’m starting to worry that none of the other Freshmen have a ton of potential. And I think the Freshmen would kill the Sophomores! So it just doesn’t look like recruiting is going so great that we shouldn’t at least consider getting some transfers.

But this particular transfer is probably out of our league.
Strongly disagree. Here are some numbers of various players after their freshman season.

Lyons: 5.9 pts, 1.4 reb, 1.1 assists
Andrew Brown: 3.3 pts, 2.2 reb, .9 assists
Mounce: 5 pts, 2.9 reb, .4 assists
Hunter: 3.2 pts, 1.5 reb, 1.1 assists
Acox: 3.7 pts, 4.8 reb, .4 assists
John Davis III: 3.8 pts, 1.3 reb, 1.4 assists

The only freshmen to put in quality stats and minutes over the years are Gurley, Rafferty, and Sibley. I don't really know what you are looking for in terms of this freshman bench production because by your standards, all of the above guys would have no potential.
Those numbers actually back me up. Hein’s numbers are similar to Lyons. Nobody else is above 2.4 ppg. And we won’t be playing SC State or Flagler again so those numbers are likely to be more like 1 ppg by the end of the season. It is unlikely they will approach the numbers of the guys you list. And those guys never won the SoCon.
 #35099  by PaladinPower
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:24 pm
Marcus Foster has put better numbers up than Davis, Hunter, and Brown, and he is pretty close to the numbers Mounce and Acox put up. I don't think the freshmen's numbers are staggeringly low and with "no potential" like you suggest. What is more disappointing are the numbers by guys who have been here for a year or more and have not produced off the bench. This freshman class is fine and has a ton of potential in my opinion.
 #35100  by Furmanoid
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
Didn’t say no potential. Said they may not have a ton of potential. Foster is a R-Fr. He is the best of his recruiting year. If he and Hein came in the same year then I’d be more excited about our recruiting. All I’m saying is that it isn’t looking as great as we would like. We get one or maybe two dependable guys a year. That gives you 8 if everything goes well. So why not be open to transfers? They don’t have cooties (unless they come from Coastal).
 #35108  by FurmAlum
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:51 pm
apaladin wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:57 am
What freshman is ready to play? Just asking.
I was referring to current freshman Garrett Hein.
 #35109  by youwouldno
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:01 pm
Furmanoid wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
Didn’t say no potential. Said they may not have a ton of potential. Foster is a R-Fr. He is the best of his recruiting year. If he and Hein came in the same year then I’d be more excited about our recruiting. All I’m saying is that it isn’t looking as great as we would like. We get one or maybe two dependable guys a year. That gives you 8 if everything goes well. So why not be open to transfers? They don’t have cooties (unless they come from Coastal).

The problem with your logic is this - coaches sign recruits without being 100% sure how their careers will ultimately play out.

So to get 8 contributors, you can't cumulatively sign 8 HS players, you sign, say, 13 HS players. And while programs are allowed to pull scholarships from players that aren't making a big impact, actually doing so in Furman's case would severely hurt future recruiting and is really not an option.

Someone like Caleb Mills will never transfer to Furman anyway, so keeping a scholarship open for a transfer would almost certainly not result in a star-level player (as those will always go to power conference schools), but it would negatively impact the chances of finding a future contributor from the HS ranks (by having one less HS recruit). So this is one of those situations where doing the "right thing" happens to be the same as the optimum strategy.

With respect to the younger players on the roster, you can't really look at counting stats yet . . . the sample size is too small and the younger players defer to the experienced guys when they are out there. In my view, the big things to look for are (in no particular order):

- potential to create offense/score around the basket
- potential to shoot 3s
- potential to handle/pass the ball
- potential to play high-level defense (obviously more than 1/5th in importance)
- potential to rebound

Few if any players will be strong in all 5, but for instance, Rafferty was strong in 4 of the 5 and decent at the 5th (3s). Bothwell is similar except his 5th category would be rebounding. That's the elite level. Then you have really solid players who are maybe good at 3 of the 5 but play to their strengths - Hunter is a good example.

Applying this to the Paladins in their 1st or 2nd year, I do think it's fair to say that there aren't any obvious elite prospects. Those guys are hard to find in general. But all of those younger players have potential in enough areas that they could turn into a contributor. For star power though, the incoming recruiting class will need a hit or two. It does at least look extremely strong on paper.
FurmAlum liked this
 #35114  by apaladin
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:06 pm
It’s not just about stats. Some players pass the eye test without putting up stats.
 #35115  by RaleighDin
 Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:23 pm
Coach Richey said on the podcase, I believe, a couple years ago that recruiting is less about looking for potential (b/c everyone at the D1 level has that, and all coaches can identify it), and more about evaluating someone's potential to reach their potential. Thought that was very insightful, and look forward to the younger players getting the chance to do just that as they continue to get more opportunities.

Hien seems like a future all-socon guy. Lawrence is surprisingly quick for someone his size, just needs to add some strength to compliment his jumper. Foster seems to have the total package, I think we'll see more as his confidence grows. Kenney and Anderson have a swag that I really like. Add this group to the incoming recruiting class and I think coach has us set up very nicely for the future.
AstroDin liked this
 #35120  by Paul C
 Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:15 am
Stats are also driven by playing time. Back when Sibley and Croone and Rafferty were putting up big #s we had no choice but to play them.

Now we don’t. With the kind of player we typically recruit I’d say not to expect much in year 1 or 2 with one of those years possibly being a RS. Don’t forget Mounce and Gurley RS’d.

Also I wonder how the COVID issues affected this years class....

And just to pile on I think Hein will be special his Jr/Sr years.
 #35124  by Furmanoid
 Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:26 am
OK, no transfers then. But no more complaining about lack of production from the bench and lack of depth.
FU69 liked this
 #35126  by AstroDin
 Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:55 am
a few updates on the 21 class…

Pegues is on the sidelines - so far no Metro BB in Nashville, looking at a start date around the 26th.


I love this guy… Alex Williams. Williams had a great Beach Ball named to the All-Tournament Team.
A clip from a game in early December…
 #35134  by Furmanoid
 Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:38 am
Do you suppose colleges pay much attention to HS games anymore or do they mainly focus on travel ball? We have a Nike Elite tournament in North Augusta every summer and it’s pretty cool. I don’t even go that often but I’ve hung out pretty close to Coach K, Roy Williams, Bob Knight and even Dan Majerle. You look around and see coaches from every major and mid major you’ve ever heard of. Once our lower state runner up NA team stood in for a missing travel team and got blown out of course.

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