Grainger Leaving

[cavedweller2]

Number of pass attempts by winning Team in most recent 4 FCS National Championship Games...

2019 - 10
2018 - 19
2017 - 22
2016 - 12

Avg. = 15.75

FUBeAR is a bear of very little brain, but I’d say throwing the ball about 16 times per game sounds about right.

To be fair, we don't have as strong a run game as NDSU (who does?) - I mean, heck if we are Bama we would never have to throw to win FCS - but your point has merit. like them there facts and data

JMU won the 2016 season (game was in 2017) throwing the ball 12 times.

They beat NDSU in the semi-finals that season with 18 pass attempts.

NDSU had 38 attempts in that loss.

...not sure if I’ve ever said this before... RUN THE DANG BALL!

Line up. Hit the man in front of you. Knock him off the ball so (RB) can run. It is simple in it's complexity.

[The Jackal]

The chance of recruiting good arm talent to FCS schools is kind of iffy isn’t it? Sometimes you get lucky, but I don’t see how you can count on it and build an offense around somebody you hope you might get. You’d never get an Ingle today because he would have just transferred to the ACC or Big 10. I wish we would just Feltonize (bulldoze) all these small fast defenses built to stop the spread. LB’s and DB’s coming out of HS are getting skinnier and more interested in intercepting than in tackling some big scary dude.

I mean, I think we give teams plenty to worry about from a physicality standpoint.

My (often repeated) opinion is that our offense struggled against teams that could match us physically because we lacked consistency in the passing game.

I don't care how big and bad we may be, nearly every defense we face will have a numbers advantage up front. It's how the game is designed - they've got more bodies to block than we've got blockers.

Our offense has to find ways to get a defense out of our face up front. The better defenses we faced last year weren't afraid of us throwing the ball.

[Furmanoid]

I’m just speculating that the coaches aren’t fixated on recruiting a great quarterback because they know it ain’t happening. If they can get somebody who can run, make good option reads (a very under appreciated skill that eliminates the need to block everybody) and hit a wide open receiver 10-15 times that’s good enough. If a guy with a Trevor Lawrence arm wants to go to FU he needs to be drug tested.

[gofurman]

I’m just speculating that the coaches aren’t fixated on recruiting a great quarterback because they know it ain’t happening. If they can get somebody who can run, make good option reads (a very under appreciated skill that eliminates the need to block everybody) and hit a wide open receiver 10-15 times that’s good enough. If a guy with a Trevor Lawrence arm wants to go to FU he needs to be drug tested.

true - though a good many NFL QBs come out of FCS schools - and you have to be able to throw w a cannon in the NFL !! Granted, I don't think those guys are Lawrence but they have NFL arms.

Wentz, Romo, Trey Lance, Flacco Jimmy Garoppolo ( I do think FLacco was a transfer but he played a while at Delaware I think..)

[gofurman]

The chance of recruiting good arm talent to FCS schools is kind of iffy isn’t it? Sometimes you get lucky, but I don’t see how you can count on it and build an offense around somebody you hope you might get. You’d never get an Ingle today because he would have just transferred to the ACC or Big 10. I wish we would just Feltonize (bulldoze) all these small fast defenses built to stop the spread. LB’s and DB’s coming out of HS are getting skinnier and more interested in intercepting than in tackling some big scary dude.

I mean, I think we give teams plenty to worry about from a physicality standpoint.

My (often repeated) opinion is that our offense struggled against teams that could match us physically because we lacked consistency in the passing game.

I don't care how big and bad we may be, nearly every defense we face will have a numbers advantage up front. It's how the game is designed - they've got more bodies to block than we've got blockers.

Our offense has to find ways to get a defense out of our face up front. The better defenses we faced last year weren't afraid of us throwing the ball.

Agree Jackal, at some point you have to throw.. as FUBeAR said the champions were throwing 16 times a game. SO even the best run 45 times and throw 16 or whatever. 75% run / 25% pass. And if your QB doesn't run it's basically a game of 10 vs 11 - they have a free guy or even two in the box if they bring safeties up. At some point you can't win 7 vs 9 or whatever. Throw a few and get a safety out of the box.

Your quote here is spot on "My (often repeated) opinion is that our offense struggled against teams that could match us physically because we lacked consistency in the passing game. " Woff was a good example. Their DL stuffed us. Citadel just outnumbered us and dared us to throw. ANd we didn't complete but 5. Kudos to them on picking a poison. That's the poison I would pick too. Much more can go wrong w a pass - incomplete or tip or...

So I would love nothing more than to never pass and run 60 times from 7 yards per carry and win a Natty that way... I want to run every play and win 50-0. IE vs Samford or Mercer (sort of). But I don't think that is realistic. Vs the best DL we are going to have to complete 12-15 passes I think

[The Jackal]

I’m just speculating that the coaches aren’t fixated on recruiting a great quarterback because they know it ain’t happening. If they can get somebody who can run, make good option reads (a very under appreciated skill that eliminates the need to block everybody) and hit a wide open receiver 10-15 times that’s good enough. If a guy with a Trevor Lawrence arm wants to go to FU he needs to be drug tested.

FCS coaches, like virtually all non-P5 programs, are looking for market inefficiencies. They are trying to find guys that are overlooked for whatever reason.

We could discuss dozens of excellent FCS players that were overlooked by major universities for whatever reason. Some guys were too short, too slow, played the wrong position, an untimely injury, or lived in a difficult to reach part of the country.

I also do not believe we can cursorily dismiss our recruiting efforts. I went into detail about this on some other thread, but our current staff inherited a bad QB situation from their predecessors and have had some bad luck with transfers (Grainger will add to that problem should he opt to leave).

[FurmAlum]

Hate to see Grainger leave too. I thought he was a budding superstar. If he is leaving because he doesn't think he is going to get any playing time, then Sisson must have really improved!!

Or maybe he's getting some bad advice. I wish he would stay but wish him well if he leaves.

[youwouldno]

FCS coaches, like virtually all non-P5 programs, are looking for market inefficiencies. They are trying to find guys that are overlooked for whatever reason.

We could discuss dozens of excellent FCS players that were overlooked by major universities for whatever reason. Some guys were too short, too slow, played the wrong position, an untimely injury, or lived in a difficult to reach part of the country.

I also do not believe we can cursorily dismiss our recruiting efforts. I went into detail about this on some other thread, but our current staff inherited a bad QB situation from their predecessors and have had some bad luck with transfers (Grainger will add to that problem should he opt to leave).

According to you, anything negative that occurs is "bad luck." If I write a crap memo at work, I can't turn around and blame it on "bad luck." CCH and his staff are certainly very capable football coaches, but the reality is that they haven't handled the QB position well. Anything beyond that is just excuses - the same kind of excuses I remember hearing about Fowler (of course those had to be more numerous and even less plausible).

[The Jackal]

FCS coaches, like virtually all non-P5 programs, are looking for market inefficiencies. They are trying to find guys that are overlooked for whatever reason.

We could discuss dozens of excellent FCS players that were overlooked by major universities for whatever reason. Some guys were too short, too slow, played the wrong position, an untimely injury, or lived in a difficult to reach part of the country.

I also do not believe we can cursorily dismiss our recruiting efforts. I went into detail about this on some other thread, but our current staff inherited a bad QB situation from their predecessors and have had some bad luck with transfers (Grainger will add to that problem should he opt to leave).

According to you, anything negative that occurs is "bad luck." If I write a crap memo at work, I can't turn around and blame it on "bad luck." CCH and his staff are certainly very capable football coaches, but the reality is that they haven't handled the QB position well. Anything beyond that is just excuses - the same kind of excuses I remember hearing about Fowler (of course those had to be more numerous and even less plausible).

How so? I went into this in detail on some other post, but you have to look at context.

Fowler recruited two QBs in the 2014 class (Blazejowski and Roberts). Furman took no QB in 2015, having just taken two in 2016 (and redshirting Roberts). In 2016, Fowler's staff brought in Avery Armstrong, who was almost immediately moved to WR.

So, now Furman has gone two years (2015 and 2016) with no scholarship QB. Hendrix had nothing to do with that (besides keeping Armstrong at WR).

Hendrix is hired in December 2016. He immediately tries to add a QB in the 2017 class. The original target, Jalen Greene, flips his commitment to Elon late in the game. Furman fills that spot with JeMar Lincoln.

Seeing the gap left by missing out on two seasons without a QB, Furman recruits two QBs - Sisson and Grainger - in 2018.

Going into the 2018 season, Hendrix cites four QBs (Roberts, Lincoln, Grainger, and Sisson) as potential starters at the position. To that point, Roberts had never started and none of the other three had even played in a college game. Again, that is a problem Hendrix inherited, not created.

Lincoln, of course, leaves the program before the season. So, now back to three scholarship QBs - a redshirt senior that had never started and two true freshmen.

Having just taken two QBs in 2018, Furman did not take a QB in the 2019 class. As best I could tell from following reported offers, Furman was not even in the market for a QB in that class given that most of the snaps were going to go to two freshmen.

So, Furman heads into 2020 with two redshirt sophomore QBs. They have a commitment from Wilson for the 2021 class.

Now we find out Grainger is transferring. In his public comments, Grainger indicated that his decision to transfer wasn't anything Furman did. Maybe he stays, maybe he goes. Maybe he lost out to Sisson. I don't know, but it doesn't seem like the situation was "mishandled" by Furman. At least not according to Grainger.

So, what could have been done different?

I mean, potentially Furman could have brought in a transfer QB to fill in the gap after Roberts graduated. Even then, that still would have been trying to accelerate Furman's competition window ahead of schedule. The coaching staff, presumptively, considered that it would be better long term for Sisson/Grainger to cut their teeth as freshmen and try to really push for a national title in 2021.

Even then, transfers aren't a panacea (usually, there's a reason they are trying to transfer). Even if Furman wanted to take an older transfer (and there's no indication they did), there's no guarantee anyone would be any better than Grainger or Sisson for the 2019/2020 seasons.

Other than that, what would you have them do? Magically convince two kids not to leave? Wish Fowler had recruited a kid in 2016 that could stick at QB?

[Thorny]

FCS coaches, like virtually all non-P5 programs, are looking for market inefficiencies. They are trying to find guys that are overlooked for whatever reason.

We could discuss dozens of excellent FCS players that were overlooked by major universities for whatever reason. Some guys were too short, too slow, played the wrong position, an untimely injury, or lived in a difficult to reach part of the country.

I also do not believe we can cursorily dismiss our recruiting efforts. I went into detail about this on some other thread, but our current staff inherited a bad QB situation from their predecessors and have had some bad luck with transfers (Grainger will add to that problem should he opt to leave).

According to you, anything negative that occurs is "bad luck." If I write a crap memo at work, I can't turn around and blame it on "bad luck." CCH and his staff are certainly very capable football coaches, but the reality is that they haven't handled the QB position well. Anything beyond that is just excuses - the same kind of excuses I remember hearing about Fowler (of course those had to be more numerous and even less plausible).

CCH has had a component QB ready to play every year of his tenure. Right now the argument is we are a little light because we have a returning Sophomore with starting experience, with a solid looking junior and an 3 star FBS transfer to back him up for depth.

I don't think I would feel better with an extra freshman QB in the mix. If anything I think CCH has a better history of hitting the mark when recruiting players which has given him more leeway with how he distributes scholarships.

[The Jackal]

I had also forgotten that we had a commit from Texas, Carter Bir, in the 2019 class that opted to walk on at TCU. I think he had even committed, signed, and then transferred.

Again, I'm not sure what else our coaching staff is supposed to do on this kind of stuff. I call it bad luck. You can call it whatever you want.

[Furmanoid]

I had also forgotten that we had a commit from Texas, Carter Bir, in the 2019 class that opted to walk on at TCU. I think he had even committed, signed, and then transferred.

Again, I'm not sure what else our coaching staff is supposed to do on this kind of stuff. I call it bad luck. You can call it whatever you want.

You’re making a pretty good argument for what I was trying to say. Getting really good QB’s is HARD. It isn’t that it’s bad luck when you lose out. It’s fantastic luck when you get one. And you have to have that luck once a year. If you get 2 in one year, you have to expect one to transfer. But you always need 3 on hand who can run your offense well when (not if) the injuries come.

You are right, fcs has to look for that overlooked guy. Either he’s got the arm but he’s too small (injury risk and needs a short o line) or he doesn’t pass much in his team’s system (even though he wins and runs his offense to perfection). That second kind of guy is out there in large numbers. He can be an ok college passer and a good overall QB.

It just seems wiser to get multiple ok athletic qb’s and use a system that suits their abilities. The key is always going to be the OL. The smart slightly undersized guys with quick feet that your strength coach can build into monsters. If you can impose your will running you are going to start seeing wide open receivers, which takes the pressure off the qb. But so far our line just isn’t quite there. Nobody’s saying don’t pass. Just don’t use an offense that depends too much on a guy you may not have no matter how much effort you put into qb recruiting. Our coaches know that. If our OL improves a little bit we’ll be undefeated.

[DeepPurple]

In this get in the portal world today, it is amazing we have kept him or whoever, this long. Hamp will be 1 awesome QB for FU, in only a few months. I watch the SEC lose players left and right everyday. This stuff evens happens at Furman. Time to move on.

[AstroDin]

I agree with the points by Jackal and Furmaniod. I'll add another layer that hasn't been brought up yet. During the early period of CCH's era of being HC, Cronic was the QB and OC. My guess then is that Cronic had a large role in recruiting Granger and Sisson. Sisson was a three-year starter at Mountain Brook and Furman has in a battle to get Hamp with Wofford and the academies. Grainger was a first-year starter at QB committed then held out and didn't sign during the early signing period and signed in the late period. This doesn't give us any new insight but I will voice my take.

Sission is a prototype Furman QB. Has an option background, and he can pass the ball (completed 321-of-485 passes for 5,845 yards and 43 touchdowns in his career). Grainger showed a lot of potentials, a big arm, explosive athletic ability, but just one year of experience. Cronic leaves and Quarles takes over, and it looks to me the focus becomes a true multiple offensive attack.

To Furmanoids point CCH inherited some wonky depth issues at OL. As well as this is me talking no one official, I believe the linemen inherited didnn't exactly fit the mold of what Hendrix and Lusk want at OL.

Furman offensive line recruiting
2017 early signing - 1 offensive lineman
2018 early signing - 3 offensive linemen
2019 early signing - 3 offensive linemen
2020 early signing - 2 offensive linemen (possibly three)

Under CCH Furman has been methodical and has put a high value on an offer from Furman. They just don't throw a scholarship out there like candy.

[gofurman]

I had also forgotten that we had a commit from Texas, Carter Bir, in the 2019 class that opted to walk on at TCU. I think he had even committed, signed, and then transferred.

Again, I'm not sure what else our coaching staff is supposed to do on this kind of stuff. I call it bad luck. You can call it whatever you want.

You’re making a pretty good argument for what I was trying to say. Getting really good QB’s is HARD. It isn’t that it’s bad luck when you lose out. It’s fantastic luck when you get one. And you have to have that luck once a year. If you get 2 in one year, you have to expect one to transfer. But you always need 3 on hand who can run your offense well when (not if) the injuries come.

You are right, fcs has to look for that overlooked guy. Either he’s got the arm but he’s too small (injury risk and needs a short o line) or he doesn’t pass much in his team’s system (even though he wins and runs his offense to perfection). That second kind of guy is out there in large numbers. He can be an ok college passer and a good overall QB.

It just seems wiser to get multiple ok athletic qb’s and use a system that suits their abilities. The key is always going to be the OL. The smart slightly undersized guys with quick feet that your strength coach can build into monsters. If you can impose your will running you are going to start seeing wide open receivers, which takes the pressure off the qb. But so far our line just isn’t quite there. Nobody’s saying don’t pass. Just don’t use an offense that depends too much on a guy you may not have no matter how much effort you put into qb recruiting. Our coaches know that. If our OL improves a little bit we’ll be undefeated.

I would agree here. You probably want 2 things in QBs. 1) 3 of them -so I agree we were one guy short...
But here is the real big key 2) you want them in DIFFERENT YEARS/CLASSES - I was always wondering with Hamp and Grainger if one (either) would maybe leave.

It is Very odd to have only two QBs COMBINED with both being the same class. You almost know in this day and age (right or wrong) of the transfer portal that one of those guys is a high chance to leave. So with that said, I think we should have offered maybe two last year. Then if the guy goes to TCU (as he did) you still have one. I also agree that recruiting is part art and part science. I get that you never know who you will get. I do. However, when my two top QBs are the .. very .. same .. class - it would honestly take luck for one Not to transfer.

And I know that this is hindsight. I get that. But I think it is a reasonable point to note it is strange to have your best two QBs in the same class . I have to assume they (Sisson/Grainger) were the best two and that is why the coaches took Shiflett and put him at WR.