Scheduling

[edwards555]

Refusal of schools in major conferences playing Furman is not going away. We are looking to play by NCAA rule between 27-31 games. The easiest way is to increase the Conference for basketball to 12 teams. That would create 11 home and 11 away games. For budget purposes we play 3 money games. That gets us to 25. This year we play at Loyola and I believe at Winthrop. Next year try to schedule two home/away series like these 2(1 home- 1 away). Next attempt to schedule 2 neutral sites games like at Elon that really were 1 neutral and 1 away. This produces 12 home-15 away -2 neutral. Play the remainder against D-2
Finally drive attendance at the well. Produces more revenue and I believe if we can get it up to 10,000 would also help recruiting.

[Affirm]

Due to the current situation, there’s probably a very good argument for dropping, at least, to non-scholarship football. How important is athletics to a non-athlete student’s education? If not that much then get rid of the biggest line item and save some money. In a worst case scenario, would you rather have football and a financially weakened school or a financially strong school and no football? Or no football AND no school?

I tend to suspect that you are just baiting. I doubt that you really mean what you said above. I think I am the only one who posts on this board who believes that football is less important for Furman than this board overall thinks.
In a worst case scenario, I WOULD rather NOT have football than have a not financially strong, not academically great, school.
I am not, as I have stated before, advocating that football be dropped at Furman. It seems to be necessary, unfortunately, that we keep it and other sports at D1 level in order to attract students and alumni support.
However, I have stated previously that it would be good for us to "not close the door on the possibility of"
(A) moving to the Pioneer League, joining schools such as Davidson, Stetson, Marist, Drake, Butler, San Diego possibly but not necessarily getting Wofford and Citadel to come along with us or
(B) starting a new FCS league similar to the Pioneer League model if we could bring along schools like Davidson, Stetson, Wofford, Presbyterian, Citadel, and several others, with each of the schools remaining in their current conference for sports other than football.
I admit that I do not know the financial costs and benefits, direct and indirect, that Furman has now in the SoCon versus those that Furman would have under the following possibilities:
1. A & B above.
2. Moving to Division 2 for all sports.
3. Moving to Division 3 for all sports.
4. Dropping football but staying Division 1 for all other sports.

[Affirm]

Refusal of schools in major conferences playing Furman is not going away. We are looking to play by NCAA rule between 27-31 games. The easiest way is to increase the Conference for basketball to 12 teams. That would create 11 home and 11 away games. For budget purposes we play 3 money games. That gets us to 25. This year we play at Loyola and I believe at Winthrop. Next year try to schedule two home/away series like these 2(1 home- 1 away). Next attempt to schedule 2 neutral sites games like at Elon that really were 1 neutral and 1 away. This produces 12 home-15 away -2 neutral. Play the remainder against D-2
Finally drive attendance at the well. Produces more revenue and I believe if we can get it up to 10,000 would also help recruiting.

YOU ARE CORRECT.
Consider the following:
Presently:
Furman
Wofford
Citadel
Mercer
Samford
Chattanooga
ETSU
VMI
UNCG
WCU
...each school 9 conference opponents for basketball, 18 automatic regular season games per year
Add CofC
...each school would have 10 conference opponents for basketball, 20 automatic regular season games per year
Also add UNCW
...each school would have 11 conference opponents for basketball, 22 automatic regular season games per year
Also add Winthrop
... each school would have 12 conference opponents for basketball, 24 automatic regular season games per year
THAT is a way to get to your suggested total of 12 or even 13 conference members.
We could push it up to 14 or 15 or 16 conference members by considering addition of other schools including possibilities such as:
UNCA
Radford
Gardner-Webb
Elon
Charleston Southern
High Point.

[Furmanoid]

Due to the current situation, there’s probably a very good argument for dropping, at least, to non-scholarship football. How important is athletics to a non-athlete student’s education? If not that much then get rid of the biggest line item and save some money. In a worst case scenario, would you rather have football and a financially weakened school or a financially strong school and no football? Or no football AND no school?

I don’t think things are quite that bad unless we shut down school for the fall. That might be enough of an economic disaster to call for radical changes. But if you drop football you drop enrollment. Kids think they want to go to a football school even if they don’t bother to go to the games when they’re there. DII still has scholarships so I’m not sure the savings would be enough to matter. I’m afraid we would just suck in a non scholarship situation because we would have to find players who could afford to go to Furman.

[Paul C]

Don’t think we can be D2 in football and D1 in hoops.

[apaladin]

I’m pretty sure if you call up Citadel, Wofford etc. and say hey let’s form a new conference and drop to division 2 they would all laugh at you. Playing D2 football would cost more than D1 because of the loss in revenue. Playing D2 basketball would be the same. In football take away the FBS game, reduced attendance and support and you take a huge hit. Don’t know how you measure the loss of publicity, prestige etc but that would take a huge hit also. Basketball would take a huge hit also. Reduced revenue from attendance, NCAA tourney etc. If Furman moved to D2 they would be worse off financially. I have no desire to see FU battle the likes of NGU, Newberry, Lenoir Rhiyne etc. To even suggest FU is not a financially secure academic school because of football is laughable. If FU ever dropped to D2 I would never set foot in PS or Timmons arena. I would no longer be a season ticket holder in both football and basketball nor Paladin Club member. I believe there are many others who feel the same way but maybe I am wrong. Those 2 or 3 of you that keep advocating these things should really stop it.

[FurmAlum]

apaladin is correct. There would be many, including me, that would no longer support FU athletics if we moved to D2. And I agree that we would be worse off financially if we did.

(As an aside, Austin Peay went to non-scholarship football about 15 years ago. It was a disaster. They reinstated scholarship football and the university has thrived ever since.

Let's table that idiotic idea.

[Affirm]

Don’t think we can be D2 in football and D1 in hoops.

Pioneer League is not D2, it’s D1.
Don’t twist or spin what I wrote.

[Affirm]

I’m pretty sure if you call up Citadel, Wofford etc. and say hey let’s form a new conference and drop to division 2 they would all laugh at you. Playing D2 football would cost more than D1 because of the loss in revenue. Playing D2 basketball would be the same. In football take away the FBS game, reduced attendance and support and you take a huge hit. Don’t know how you measure the loss of publicity, prestige etc but that would take a huge hit also. Basketball would take a huge hit also. Reduced revenue from attendance, NCAA tourney etc. If Furman moved to D2 they would be worse off financially. I have no desire to see FU battle the likes of NGU, Newberry, Lenoir Rhiyne etc. To even suggest FU is not a financially secure academic school because of football is laughable. If FU ever dropped to D2 I would never set foot in PS or Timmons arena. I would no longer be a season ticket holder in both football and basketball nor Paladin Club member. I believe there are many others who feel the same way but maybe I am wrong. Those 2 or 3 of you that keep advocating these things should really stop it.

I did not say D2. Pioneer League is D1. Do not twist what I wrote.

[Affirm]

apaladin is correct. There would be many, including me, that would no longer support FU athletics if we moved to D2. And I agree that we would be worse off financially if we did.

(As an aside, Austin Peay went to non-scholarship football about 15 years ago. It was a disaster. They reinstated scholarship football and the university has thrived ever since.

Let's table that idiotic idea.

Do not twist what anyone wrote. Pioneer League is not D2, it is D1.

[Paul C]

Don’t think we can be D2 in football and D1 in hoops.

Pioneer League is not D2, it’s D1.
Don’t twist or spin what I wrote.

I was replying to Furmanoid in the post previous to mine.

And D2 would be a disaster.

[tim]

apaladin is correct. There would be many, including me, that would no longer support FU athletics if we moved to D2. And I agree that we would be worse off financially if we did.

(As an aside, Austin Peay went to non-scholarship football about 15 years ago. It was a disaster. They reinstated scholarship football and the university has thrived ever since.

Let's table that idiotic idea.

Do not twist what anyone wrote. Pioneer League is not D2, it is D1.

If you think football needs to be in the Pioneer, why don't you get off your ass and accomplish it instead of annoying the hell out of people on a message board. Start a campaign, go to the administration etc. Good luck with that.

[Roundball]

Please move the football discussion to another thread. Back to basketball, I’m looking forward to seeing our schedule. I don’t care who we play. Just tip off the season already. Go Paladins.

[apaladin]

apaladin is correct. There would be many, including me, that would no longer support FU athletics if we moved to D2. And I agree that we would be worse off financially if we did.

(As an aside, Austin Peay went to non-scholarship football about 15 years ago. It was a disaster. They reinstated scholarship football and the university has thrived ever since.

Let's table that idiotic idea.

Do not twist what anyone wrote. Pioneer League is not D2, it is D1.

Pioneer also makes no sense. It is D1 football in name only. Only one team within driving distance. Teams in New York, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Ohio, Kentucky and California. Travel expenses along with reduced revenue would make this a disaster also.

[Davemeister]

Please move the football discussion to another thread. Back to basketball, I’m looking forward to seeing our schedule. I don’t care who we play. Just tip off the season already. Go Paladins.

Aren't you forgetting something? The Second Wave !!!!!

The 2020-21 BB season is doomed.