Furman vs Citadel

[DungeonRealm]

We were badly out coached and out quarterbacked today. This staff is great at building a program and elevating our recruiting. They are not great at X’s and O’s. That was obvious today and has been shown in previous games this season. ETSU comes to mind.
Our QB had a very bad day as well. Also obvious. We supposedly have a very high quality backup who nearly won the starting job and yet, no appearance?
We have a very good team who is going to win more games this year but improvement is certainly called for in many areas. I hope that will happen.

[The Jackal]

DG obviously is having a bad game. The coaches had a bad game too. We want back to throwing on first down that killed 3 straight drives. Didn't do that against Sammy but did against ETSU. The 3 third and ones were just awful play calls. A delayed handoff 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage on third and one? If a=I am in defense I am begging you to call that. Conference is now wide open. Pretenders have become contenders after this game but Woffy now becomes the odds on favorite. They took care of business today and we didn't.

Wofford still hasn't played a good team.

neither have we.

Get out of here with that.

We have some similar opponents, but Wofford hasn't played a team remotely as good as Georgia State or Virginia Tech (both of whom keep winning, by the way).

Wofford's schedule is backloaded. They play Clemson, Furman, the Citadel, and UTC in the last half of the year. Let's all just wait and see what happens in those games before crowning them conference champs.

[gofurman]

DG obviously is having a bad game. The coaches had a bad game too. We want back to throwing on first down that killed 3 straight drives. Didn't do that against Sammy but did against ETSU. The 3 third and ones were just awful play calls. A delayed handoff 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage on third and one? If a=I am in defense I am begging you to call that. Conference is now wide open. Pretenders have become contenders after this game but Woffy now becomes the odds on favorite. They took care of business today and we didn't.

Wofford still hasn't played a good team.

neither have we.

Get out of here with that.

We have some similar opponents, but Wofford hasn't played a team remotely as good as Georgia State or Virginia Tech (both of whom keep winning, by the way).

Wofford's schedule is backloaded. They play Clemson, Furman, the Citadel, and UTC in the last half of the year. Let's all just wait and see what happens in those games before crowning them conference champs.

I meant FCS - especially SOCON man. shoulda been more specific I guess. That lack of specificity is on me I admit.

Show me a top 3 SoCon team we have played. you get out of here - have you answered my question where you used FEELINGS and I used FACTS yet? I bet not.

Ill post it for you here in the next post: You are a good guy - I am the positive one on this. Your memory is incorrect but instead of acknowledging that you continue to answer my other posts:

[gofurman]

Re: FU-Citadel Post-game Summary
#18854 by gofurman
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:42 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jackal wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:04 pm
Disappointing effort. I've lost track of the last time I thought Furman looked good coming off a bye week. That's been a problem for a while. (gofurman - ??? what are you talking about ??? )

Hard to sugar coat this one. I thought the defense played well enough to keep us in the game. That was one of the worst offensive performances we've seen in a while. The Citadel had something to do with that, but we had a lot of self inflicted wounds out there.

Against a few of these teams, we were able to have an off day and still win. We aren't good enough to do that against the better teams.

My hope is that this turns out to be a wakeup call this team needed. We cannot let the Citadel beat us twice, and will need to regroup and get after it next week.

We still control out destiny. Probably not if we play like we did today, though.
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GoFurman POST :
Guess I’m Mr Positive . I actually thought CH teams had done well off bye weeks two years. Yes, we have !!! -arguably our TWO BEST WINS in 2017 and 2018 are directly from the bye week !!! And both vs option teams at that ! what are you talking about we play poorly after the bye week???

Jackal - not snarky. Not mean.. I am really just asking man. What are you saying above ( the bold and underlined) ? You say we play poorly coming off the bye week? That's just incorrect. Last year our best win was arguably killing Woff which was coming off the bye week. That was a tremendous performance coming directly from our bye week ! Are you saying we didn’t look good Vs Woff last year?

You know our off week score in 2017? The 56-20 crushing of Citadel. So AGAIN same set up. Bye week then play an option team and we CRUSHED. I don’t really see how you can say we don’t do well from bye weeks. Hendrix (w Staggs mind you !) has KILLED teams given a bye week to prep for option

Also that’s what gave me faith playing Citadel. Same setup as both years. Option team. Bye week...

Here is 2017 and 2018 just like I was saying.. two of our best wins right after the BYE week and vs Wofford and Citadel option teams of all teams both years. Both years we dominated:

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 7z;mt;fp;1;;

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 7z;mt;fp;1;;

Please reply as you responded to most every post of mine EXCEPT this one.

[AstroDin]

I'm Curious about throwing a wet ball?

I played BB in high school one of the things our team loved to do was play pickup games in the rain. It had zero effect on how we played in real games but we had fun and it was a bonding thing. It did teach me some things about spinning the ball though.

Maybe Jackal or Bear has a POV on this, Grainger looked uncomfortable from the start of the game. Someone else mentioned body language, I noticed that too. Most of Grainger's balls were short and low or high, one throw in the second half went about halfway towards its target before it hit the turf. My question does a QB need to adjust HOW he throws a wet ball, or in a case like yesterday a very wet ball?

Toward the end of the post-game presser, CCH said: "well, we played about as bad as we can play today." What I love most about Clay is his honesty, rare in coaching today. It has to be a raw experience to go out there take questions after a disappointing performance.

We're still a very young team, a tip of the hat to the Chuck Twon Dogs. I'm still heading up the mountain to Cullowhee and pulling for the DINS. Maybe the Cats are a good luck charm? The Citadel takes a beat down by the Cadets then goes up to the Wee gains some confidence. Now it's our turn.

[gofurman]

I hope we don't have a crazy thing where we have a QB who plays completely difft in rain. I don't think we do but that was truly strange yesterday. I've watched 30 yrs of FU football never seen a QB look so different

[apaladin]

I hope we don't have a crazy thing where we have a QB who plays completely difft in rain. I don't think we do but that was truly strange yesterday. I've watched 30 yrs of FU football never seen a QB look so different

Totally agree. We need to stop trying to blame this on the weather. It really wasn't that bad until late in the third quarter and I have seen worse even then. It didn't rain at all in the first quarter and not much in the second. We witnessed one of the worst offensive performance yesterday and the worst passing game I have ever seen from a FU team and I have been watching FU football a long time. Mercer and VMI played their whole game in worse conditions than we did. Both teams completed well over 20 passes and both teams threw for over 250 yards. IF this was because of the weather then we are indeed in a bad situation. Having a QB that can't play in less than ideal weather would be a huge problem. I don't think this is the case.

[FUBeAR]

I'm Curious about throwing a wet ball?

I played BB in high school one of the things our team loved to do was play pickup games in the rain. It had zero effect on how we played in real games but we had fun and it was a bonding thing. It did teach me some things about spinning the ball though.

Maybe Jackal or Bear has a POV on this, Grainger looked uncomfortable from the start of the game. Someone else mentioned body language, I noticed that too. Most of Grainger's balls were short and low or high, one throw in the second half went about halfway towards its target before it hit the turf. My question does a QB need to adjust HOW he throws a wet ball, or in a case like yesterday a very wet ball?

Toward the end of the post-game presser, CCH said: "well, we played about as bad as we can play today." What I love most about Clay is his honesty, rare in coaching today. It has to be a raw experience to go out there take questions after a disappointing performance.

We're still a very young team, a tip of the hat to the Chuck Twon Dogs. I'm still heading up the mountain to Cullowhee and pulling for the DINS. Maybe the Cats are a good luck charm? The Citadel takes a beat down by the Cadets then goes up to the Wee gains some confidence. Now it's our turn.

I don’t have an opinion, because I don’t have enough knowledge to have an opinion. The last time I (probably) attempted a pass with a wet football in an actual game (probably was practice, actually), I was an 8th grader playing 3rd Team QB in a split Veer option-based Offense - extremely low sample size & long-term memory-challenged.

BUT - when I spoke to a former All SoCon FU QB at halftime & (jokingly) told him he needed to suit up, his immediate response was extremely interesting to me, because I hadn’t even thought about it.

I’ll paraphrase HIS opinion...

‘I tell you. You can tell Grainger doesn’t have much experience throwing a wet ball. Think about it. We’ve hardly had any rainy days since they started practice this Fall & he really just hasn’t played much QB. Probably never really dealt with the difference of trying to throw a wet ball.’

I hear the current forecast for next Sat. is Rain. I would say there is about a 100% chance that FU’s QB’s get quite a few reps in practice this week throwin’ wet footballs.

[gofurman]

Interesting FUBeAR. I was told Grainger having not played HS QB much wasn’t really a detriment for him in college. I think yesterday proved the one exception. Again just the ONE possible exception. Had he played qb 3 years in HS he woulda thrown more in rain.

Still. It didn’t really rain until second half. I can’t understand first half missing wide open guys by 5 yards short

[The Jackal]

I'm Curious about throwing a wet ball?

I played BB in high school one of the things our team loved to do was play pickup games in the rain. It had zero effect on how we played in real games but we had fun and it was a bonding thing. It did teach me some things about spinning the ball though.

Maybe Jackal or Bear has a POV on this, Grainger looked uncomfortable from the start of the game. Someone else mentioned body language, I noticed that too. Most of Grainger's balls were short and low or high, one throw in the second half went about halfway towards its target before it hit the turf. My question does a QB need to adjust HOW he throws a wet ball, or in a case like yesterday a very wet ball?

Toward the end of the post-game presser, CCH said: "well, we played about as bad as we can play today." What I love most about Clay is his honesty, rare in coaching today. It has to be a raw experience to go out there take questions after a disappointing performance.

We're still a very young team, a tip of the hat to the Chuck Twon Dogs. I'm still heading up the mountain to Cullowhee and pulling for the DINS. Maybe the Cats are a good luck charm? The Citadel takes a beat down by the Cadets then goes up to the Wee gains some confidence. Now it's our turn.

This is just my opinion, but Grainger looked to me like he couldn't find his "release point."

This is more of a baseball analogy, but it becomes a lot harder to throw accurately in windy/wet/cold conditions. To me, it has less to do with the condition of the ball and more to do with your arm. It is harder to get warm and stay warm.

Sometimes on a day like yesterday, when you can't find the feel for the ball you end up trying to be too precise, and the ball will tend to sail - then you overcorrect and spike it into the ground. Everything begins to feel tight. Then it sort of gets in your head like you've never thrown a ball before.

The Citadel couldn't really throw the ball either. Granted, they throw it a lot fewer times on average than we do, but those long downfield passes are very much a big part of their offense.

[FUBeAR]

Still. It didn’t really rain until second half. I can’t understand first half missing wide open guys by 5 yards short

I said he told me this at halftime...right?

Well, I’ll certainly balance your ‘understanding’ with that of an All SoCon QB, who spent some time in an NFL camp, to form my opinion of weather/experience-related relevance as to the performance of FU’s QB yesterday.

[gofurman]

Still. It didn’t really rain until second half. I can’t understand first half missing wide open guys by 5 yards short

I said he told me this at halftime...right?

Well, I’ll certainly balance your ‘understanding’ with that of an All SoCon QB, who spent some time in an NFL camp, to form my opinion of weather/experience-related relevance as to the performance of FU’s QB yesterday.

Bear, slow your roll and read this. and see how I am objective. You REALLY ought to balance my unnderstanding... EVERYONE has input that can be valuable. EVERYONE.

First, just because someone played doesn't mean they always know more. I have done things (at work etc - for 10 years!) and guys who have NEVER done those things have given me advice and were sometimes right because they had insights I didn't have as they had better external optics on the issue etc. I can think of one example where my 10 years of experience told me X wouldnt' work but this new guy did it and it worked like a champ bc he was too ignorant NOT to try it. RESPECT peoples opinions man.

Also, If he told you that at halftime it's hardly relevant as it didn't start raining until LATE 2nd quarter and even then was a slight mist for heavens sake. I don't understand how him telling you that at half is all that relevant. As many have said who were there (like me) it didn't really rain in the first half ! maybe it rained the last 5 minutes of second Q?

How did he explain the 90% of the bad passes that occurred before that point??? I m interested what he said about the passes before the last few minutes of first half where DG couldn't hit the side of a barn and it was dry and cloudy - no rain at all

[gofurman]

I'm Curious about throwing a wet ball?

I played BB in high school one of the things our team loved to do was play pickup games in the rain. It had zero effect on how we played in real games but we had fun and it was a bonding thing. It did teach me some things about spinning the ball though.

Maybe Jackal or Bear has a POV on this, Grainger looked uncomfortable from the start of the game. Someone else mentioned body language, I noticed that too. Most of Grainger's balls were short and low or high, one throw in the second half went about halfway towards its target before it hit the turf. My question does a QB need to adjust HOW he throws a wet ball, or in a case like yesterday a very wet ball?

Toward the end of the post-game presser, CCH said: "well, we played about as bad as we can play today." What I love most about Clay is his honesty, rare in coaching today. It has to be a raw experience to go out there take questions after a disappointing performance.

We're still a very young team, a tip of the hat to the Chuck Twon Dogs. I'm still heading up the mountain to Cullowhee and pulling for the DINS. Maybe the Cats are a good luck charm? The Citadel takes a beat down by the Cadets then goes up to the Wee gains some confidence. Now it's our turn.

This is just my opinion, but Grainger looked to me like he couldn't find his "release point."

This is more of a baseball analogy, but it becomes a lot harder to throw accurately in windy/wet/cold conditions. To me, it has less to do with the condition of the ball and more to do with your arm. It is harder to get warm and stay warm.

Sometimes on a day like yesterday, when you can't find the feel for the ball you end up trying to be too precise, and the ball will tend to sail - then you overcorrect and spike it into the ground. Everything begins to feel tight. Then it sort of gets in your head like you've never thrown a ball before.

The Citadel couldn't really throw the ball either. Granted, they throw it a lot fewer times on average than we do, but those long downfield passes are very much a big part of their offense.

release points is interesting. valid point there. However, IF (not overreacting, just saying IF) we can't throw in the COLD we will never be a postseason team !! Postseason is in the COLD !!! and yes, I saw the Citadel miss Webb downfieldonce or so too. But missing wide open guys only ten yards away can't be allowed if that's due to cold. not if you wanna play the real games in November and December.

also it was 50 degrees! NDSU has their second game at 50 degrees. LOL

[FUBeAR]

Still. It didn’t really rain until second half. I can’t understand first half missing wide open guys by 5 yards short

I said he told me this at halftime...right?

Well, I’ll certainly balance your ‘understanding’ with that of an All SoCon QB, who spent some time in an NFL camp, to form my opinion of weather/experience-related relevance as to the performance of FU’s QB yesterday.

Bear, slow your roll and read this. and see how I am objective. You REALLY ought to balance my unnderstanding... EVERYONE has input that can be valuable. EVERYONE.

First, just because someone played doesn't mean they always know more. I have done things (at work etc - for 10 years!) and guys who have NEVER done those things have given me advice and were sometimes right because they had insights I didn't have as they had better external optics on the issue etc. I can think of one example where my 10 years of experience told me X wouldnt' work but this new guy did it and it worked like a champ bc he was too ignorant NOT to try it. RESPECT peoples opinions man.

Also, If he told you that at halftime it's hardly relevant as it didn't start raining until LATE 2nd quarter and even then was a slight mist for heavens sake. How did he explain the 90% of the bad passes that occurred before that point??? I m interested what he said about the passes before the last few minutes of first half where DG couldn't hit the side of a barn and it was dry and cloudy - no rain at all

Yes, exactly - as I said, I will balance my impression, gathered from reading your many posts, of your understanding, knowledge & experience in throwing a football in a D1 college game with that of my other source on this subject, weigh those, and form my opinion.

Are you suggesting that your perspective is superior to his and I should, therefore, weigh your thoughts more heavily than his in my deliberations? If so, I’ll need to take that into consideration as well.

[gofurman]

Still. It didn’t really rain until second half. I can’t understand first half missing wide open guys by 5 yards short

I said he told me this at halftime...right?

Well, I’ll certainly balance your ‘understanding’ with that of an All SoCon QB, who spent some time in an NFL camp, to form my opinion of weather/experience-related relevance as to the performance of FU’s QB yesterday.

Bear, slow your roll and read this. and see how I am objective. You REALLY ought to balance my unnderstanding... EVERYONE has input that can be valuable. EVERYONE.

First, just because someone played doesn't mean they always know more. I have done things (at work etc - for 10 years!) and guys who have NEVER done those things have given me advice and were sometimes right because they had insights I didn't have as they had better external optics on the issue etc. I can think of one example where my 10 years of experience told me X wouldnt' work but this new guy did it and it worked like a champ bc he was too ignorant NOT to try it. RESPECT peoples opinions man.

Also, If he told you that at halftime it's hardly relevant as it didn't start raining until LATE 2nd quarter and even then was a slight mist for heavens sake. How did he explain the 90% of the bad passes that occurred before that point??? I m interested what he said about the passes before the last few minutes of first half where DG couldn't hit the side of a barn and it was dry and cloudy - no rain at all

Yes, exactly - as I said, I will balance my impression, gathered from reading your many posts, of your understanding, knowledge & experience in throwing a football in a D1 college game with that of my other source on this subject, weigh those, and form my opinion.

Are you suggesting that your perspective is superior to his and I should, therefore, weigh your thoughts more heavily than his in my deliberations? If so, I’ll need to take that into consideration as well.

FUBeAR, quit being such a snarky guy. You are a good guy. But you often fall into the " he who is seeking first to take a STAND and then quit listens to UNDERSTAND "

Ill give a strong example. You played (and I appreciate that) but you have all those years of experience and you defended BL as a coach A LOT. I never played and I knew BL was a 6-5 coach and was glad to see him leave Furman. SEE? you can not play and still have a better perspective. You have been defending BL for YEARS here and on AGS quite fervently. I was glad to see him leave FU (though I wish him the best!). You played. I didn't. Who was right about BL? MANY I know here have said the same as me (non-players) that it was best that BL get gone in numerous PMs. And once at Mercer FU would get the best of him. we have (3-0). Hendrix 3 - Lamb ZERO. Your playing and relationship w some people has limited your scope of view at times. You played D1 ball .. I didn't. Who was right? ME.

that is very analagous to my work example.

SO AGAIN Ill ask the question you did not answer - I am sure you will get distracted and give me something else and not answer this AGAIN -----> how was asking about rain relevant at halftime when it hadn't really rained yet?