• Question

 #12663  by purplehorse
 Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:19 pm
Having only ever played church basketball (although I dubbed myself a church league All-American) could more knowledgeable folks explain to me where against many teams including last night we send Rafferty out to help cover the guy dribbling around the top of the key, and then they often pass the ball over the top to their big man who has a lay-up? Are we doing it correctly? I don’t understand why we send our big man so far out. Thanks.
 #12668  by purplehorse
 Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:02 pm
JASPER answered my question to some degree in another thread:

1. WSU Coach Marshall was prepared for and exploited our ineffective center/ball trap at the top of the key defensive scheme that resulted in their big men getting 4 or 5 uncontested layups in the early going. That is the same defensive scheme used in the infamous loss to Samford when we blew a double digit lead. Too much of a gift. Burn that page in the playbook. Those easy buckets enabled them to shoot 50% from the field - 10 points higher than they average. Too much size even for superman Raff to handle.
 #12693  by tya1
 Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:21 pm
purplehorse wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:02 pm
JASPER answered my question to some degree in another thread:

1. WSU Coach Marshall was prepared for and exploited our ineffective center/ball trap at the top of the key defensive scheme that resulted in their big men getting 4 or 5 uncontested layups in the early going. That is the same defensive scheme used in the infamous loss to Samford when we blew a double digit lead. Too much of a gift. Burn that page in the playbook. Those easy buckets enabled them to shoot 50% from the field - 10 points higher than they average. Too much size even for superman Raff to handle.
Our defensive scheme against the top of the key screen is the same scheme we have used not just this year (25 wins) but ever since Medved came to Furman. Check out the win total progression. It has been very, very good for us the past few years.

The loss to Samford had nothing to do with our defensive scheme. Samford didn't get a single basket from a top of the key screen while making their comeback. That loss was 99% due to ball-handling blunders on offense and missed open shots, including a missed point blank layup.
 #12702  by ksummerlin
 Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:13 pm
The defensive scheme is correct. Our execution on the scheme is lacking. The idea is that the defensive big man steps out high on the ball screen, smothers the ball handler to take away that lob pass, thereby forcing the ball handler to dribble out wide which gives the original defender time to recover on the dribbler. At the same time you want help defense from the opposite side defender to take away the uncontested layup on the pass over the top.

Rafferty doesn't do a good job on smothering the ball handler, his defensive footwork is a little slow in this area. So he gets caught in-between defending his man or defending the ball handler -- stuck in no man's land. Also our help defense on the weak side was slow to help, or didn't help at all in those last two possessions.

WSU made a nice adjustment in the second half. They used their 6'5" small forward who could pretty easily see over Matt even if defended well as the ball handler. When we adjusted to that move, the small forward got a couple of slashing drives to the basket from the elbow extended that hurt us around the two minute mark.

It was a nice chess match to watch play out, they executed better.
din23 liked this
 #12738  by Jasper
 Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:33 am
ksummerlin wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:13 pm
The defensive scheme is correct. Our execution on the scheme is lacking. The idea is that the defensive big man steps out high on the ball screen, smothers the ball handler to take away that lob pass, thereby forcing the ball handler to dribble out wide which gives the original defender time to recover on the dribbler. At the same time you want help defense from the opposite side defender to take away the uncontested layup on the pass over the top.

Rafferty doesn't do a good job on smothering the ball handler, his defensive footwork is a little slow in this area. So he gets caught in-between defending his man or defending the ball handler -- stuck in no man's land. Also our help defense on the weak side was slow to help, or didn't help at all in those last two possessions.

WSU made a nice adjustment in the second half. They used their 6'5" small forward who could pretty easily see over Matt even if defended well as the ball handler. When we adjusted to that move, the small forward got a couple of slashing drives to the basket from the elbow extended that hurt us around the two minute mark.

It was a nice chess match to watch play out, they executed better.
The fact that Medved liked that "jump out trap" and used it for years has little to do with FU's winning progression. Niko is a good coach but has yet to coach his first game in the NCAA tourney. I watched lots of basketball over the past two days and did not see one team use that defensive maneuver. Those guys are the best in the game and they don't use it and haven't for about 5 years. It was trendy back then but the risk/reward ratio is poor. I have seen very few turnovers created by the trap but have seen a ton of layups that resulted from the offense getting the ball back to an uncovered big man. And even if it were more effective, k Summerlin points out that you need the right personnel to run. As great as Raff is, ksummerlin may be right in saying he is slow getting back to the big he was guarding and the weak side help is not getting over as well. Well, any coach will tell you that you have to suit your style to your players. If our big cannot execute that maneuver well, then you cant use it. The fact is it did not work well for FU and even casual observers at the game were talking about it. We gave up too many wide open layups.

I am well aware of Furman's good statistical progression in wins and that scheduling subject has been debated ad nausea on these boards. While enjoying the 25 wins, it seems to me that most people really want to see Furman win the league title or win the league tournament and then get to the NCAA's. That is normal. That has yet to happen and it is disappointing. Wofford has several recent titles and absolutely burst upon the national scene last night with a great win over Seton Hall on TV. Great exposure for that school. Isn't that where we want to be even if it comes at the expense of having less wins because of a more competitive OOC schedule? FU has been very competitive for the last 4 years or so but the fact is we have not taken the next step and that step is not to simply win 26 games next year & be proud of the statistical progression.
bj93, fufanatic, Affirm liked this
 #12769  by fufanatic
 Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:15 pm
Jasper wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:33 am
ksummerlin wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:13 pm
The defensive scheme is correct. Our execution on the scheme is lacking. The idea is that the defensive big man steps out high on the ball screen, smothers the ball handler to take away that lob pass, thereby forcing the ball handler to dribble out wide which gives the original defender time to recover on the dribbler. At the same time you want help defense from the opposite side defender to take away the uncontested layup on the pass over the top.

Rafferty doesn't do a good job on smothering the ball handler, his defensive footwork is a little slow in this area. So he gets caught in-between defending his man or defending the ball handler -- stuck in no man's land. Also our help defense on the weak side was slow to help, or didn't help at all in those last two possessions.

WSU made a nice adjustment in the second half. They used their 6'5" small forward who could pretty easily see over Matt even if defended well as the ball handler. When we adjusted to that move, the small forward got a couple of slashing drives to the basket from the elbow extended that hurt us around the two minute mark.

It was a nice chess match to watch play out, they executed better.
The fact that Medved liked that "jump out trap" and used it for years has little to do with FU's winning progression. Niko is a good coach but has yet to coach his first game in the NCAA tourney. I watched lots of basketball over the past two days and did not see one team use that defensive maneuver. Those guys are the best in the game and they don't use it and haven't for about 5 years. It was trendy back then but the risk/reward ratio is poor. I have seen very few turnovers created by the trap but have seen a ton of layups that resulted from the offense getting the ball back to an uncovered big man. And even if it were more effective, k Summerlin points out that you need the right personnel to run. As great as Raff is, ksummerlin may be right in saying he is slow getting back to the big he was guarding and the weak side help is not getting over as well. Well, any coach will tell you that you have to suit your style to your players. If our big cannot execute that maneuver well, then you cant use it. The fact is it did not work well for FU and even casual observers at the game were talking about it. We gave up too many wide open layups.

I am well aware of Furman's good statistical progression in wins and that scheduling subject has been debated ad nausea on these boards. While enjoying the 25 wins, it seems to me that most people really want to see Furman win the league title or win the league tournament and then get to the NCAA's. That is normal. That has yet to happen and it is disappointing. Wofford has several recent titles and absolutely burst upon the national scene last night with a great win over Seton Hall on TV. Great exposure for that school. Isn't that where we want to be even if it comes at the expense of having less wins because of a more competitive OOC schedule? FU has been very competitive for the last 4 years or so but the fact is we have not taken the next step and that step is not to simply win 26 games next year & be proud of the statistical progression.
This. It’s not mutually exclusive to acknowledge how far we’ve come while still wanting the program to get a conference title and NCAA berth. Something I’m assuming we can all agree on.

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