The Unofficial Furman Football Page

What a fantastic season we have had so far, exceeding all expections. Will this be a one season wonder or can we build and continue for a long period of time? The model for us should be Gonzaga. In 1999 A young assistant, Mark Few, was promoted as head coach. For 19 seasons his teams have played every year in the NCAA tournament.He has won 82% of his game and he has never left for a “bigger” job. The results are incredible national publicity for Gonzaga as well as increased alumni donations and student applications. We have our own “Mark Few” in Bob Richey, our very talented and visionary coach. I love BR’s opening on the All Din Podcast, “ Dream Big for what we can do here. Let’s not be small thinkers. Let’s take what we have and let’s use it to our advantage. Let’s come together as a group and let’s go do it together. “ Furman AD, Administrators, Board of Trustees, Alumni, Paladin Club Members, Students, Friends and Uffers let’s Dream Big.

Maybe Gonzaga for our dream. But really? Gonzaga, which just beat Duke in Maui, #3 beating #1!
What might be some other possibilities to model after?
...Maybe Butler - at least they are closer to Furman's size (Gonzaga is 2.5 times the enrollment of Furman), and they do support a Pioneer-level football team at least (Gonzaga does not support any level of football). However, Butler, does have the benefit of being in the Big East for basketball; and of being in a large city that is a state capital and is home to to an NBA team and home to an NFL team. Butler has been to the NCAA tournament practically as much as Gonzaga in the 19-year time period that you mentioned.
...Maybe Bucknell is a school that may be more realistic to model after - they are similar in size and in football-level to Furman, and they have been in the NCAA tournament 5 of the last 17 years.
...It pains me somewhat to say it, but maybe Wofford is a school that may be realistic to model after - they have won the SoCon tourney and gone to the NCAA tourney 4 times in recent years. (How long has it been since we've won the SoCon tourney and gone to the NCAA tourney?!) ...(At least, lets have a dream, and let's be sure to make it come true, of not losing to Wofford. I've written previously that if we could consistently beat all the private schools in the SoCon - Wofford, Samford, Mercer - then that would put us in reasonably good standing for being able to successfully compete against the public schools as well, which we obviously need to do since several of those are the ones that also take the SoCon tourney championships.)

Fuonetime wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:31 pm

What a fantastic season we have had so far, exceeding all expections. Will this be a one season wonder or can we build and continue for a long period of time? The model for us should be Gonzaga. In 1999 A young assistant, Mark Few, was promoted as head coach. For 19 seasons his teams have played every year in the NCAA tournament.He has won 82% of his game and he has never left for a “bigger” job. The results are incredible national publicity for Gonzaga as well as increased alumni donations and student applications. We have our own “Mark Few” in Bob Richey, our very talented and visionary coach. I love BR’s opening on the All Din Podcast, “ Dream Big for what we can do here. Let’s not be small thinkers. Let’s take what we have and let’s use it to our advantage. Let’s come together as a group and let’s go do it together. “ Furman AD, Administrators, Board of Trustees, Alumni, Paladin Club Members, Students, Friends and Uffers let’s Dream Big.

First of all it is FAR from a one season wonder. We have only played 3 D1games and have 24 or so left. We have had a great start but the big question is can we keep it up? Good crowd tonight considering which saw a not so exciting game. Will they come back?

Fuonetime wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:31 pm

The model for us should be Gonzaga.

This thread is appropriately named...dream big alright. I’ll take Davidson-level recognition first.

Well, in that case: "According to industry sources, McKillop's new salary (from 2015) is in the $400,000 range, which would be among the lowest in the Atlantic 10."

Figure in cost of living and the purchasing power of McKillop's salary is probably right in line, or at least not that far behind other A-10 coaches. So, FU essentially needs to double head coach's salary and likely same for assistants.

I started to bring up Davidson as a suggested model for Furman, but decided not to for several reasons including:
1. Apparently no interest in (from either side) Furman going to a different conference for basketball
2. Davidson has long been far ahead of Furman in basketball - many years.
However, if there were interest in becoming a Davidson, I would join in.
In any case, I expect salary increases for basketball at Furman are due if we are going to “dream big”.

I have no interest in becoming another Davidson. We are Furman.

Davemeister wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:49 am

I have no interest in becoming another Davidson. We are Furman.

Of course.
Your sentiment is one of the several reasons that I had in mind but did not mention.
I assume you have no interest in becoming another Gonzaga or Duke either.
My whole point is to agree we need to dream big, and to ask what a model might be other than Gonzaga. If our dream big model is Gonzaga, that seems about as unrealistic as it being Duke.
Davidson, Bucknell, Wofford seem more realistic models for “better basketball” than Gonzaga.
Yes, we are Furman.
Who is YOUR suggested model for “dream big”? Is it Gonzaga?
Is it Furman (“of the 1970’s”)?

There is no "model." Program histories go back decades and involve countless events and decisions. There's nothing Furman can do right now about events and decisions that are many years in the future - only those of the present.

In the here and now, there definitely should be a serious effort to maintain a high-quality coaching staff. I have no idea whether the University/it's supporters can muster up another couple hundred thousand a year, but that's the kind of turning point that could lead to a period of sustained competitiveness.

youwouldno wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:31 pm

There is no "model." Program histories go back decades and involve countless events and decisions. There's nothing Furman can do right now about events and decisions that are many years in the future - only those of the present.
In the here and now, there definitely should be a serious effort to maintain a high-quality coaching staff. I have no idea whether the University/it's supporters can muster up another couple hundred thousand a year, but that's the kind of turning point that could lead to a period of sustained competitiveness.

I would say double that amount, that is “muster another $400,000 per year”.
No model. Perhaps true. But there does need to be a vision and a plan if we are going to get better. I doubt that it “just happens”.

affirm wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:52 pm

I would say double that amount, that is “muster another $400,000 per year”.
No model. Perhaps true. But there does need to be a vision and a plan if we are going to get better. I doubt that it “just happens”.

What is your number based on, besides thin air?

The vision is to win games. Butler, Gonzaga, all those programs elevated their status by winning lots of games, year after year after year. Butler didn't plan on getting into the Big East (albeit a weakened version), the thought had probably never even occurred to them until shortly before it happened . . . they were in a good position because of the strength of their program.

If Furman averages 20+ wins a year over the next 10 years, it's 100% certain that everything else - budget, attendance, etc. - will be better too. That's just the way it works. But to keep things rolling that like is very hard, that's why so few programs have managed to do it.

youwouldno wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:33 pm

affirm wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:52 pm

I would say double that amount, that is “muster another $400,000 per year”.
No model. Perhaps true. But there does need to be a vision and a plan if we are going to get better. I doubt that it “just happens”.

What is your number based on, besides thin air?

The vision is to win games. Butler, Gonzaga, all those programs elevated their status by winning lots of games, year after year after year. Butler didn't plan on getting into the Big East (albeit a weakened version), the thought had probably never even occurred to them until shortly before it happened . . . they were in a good position because of the strength of their program.

If Furman averages 20+ wins a year over the next 10 years, it's 100% certain that everything else - budget, attendance, etc. - will be better too. That's just the way it works. But to keep things rolling that like is very hard, that's why so few programs have managed to do it.

Not thin air, but this:
1. youwouldknow brought up the additional $200,000 figure, 7:31 Nov 23.
2. Fessor states $400,000 range as the 4-years-old salary amount for Davidson’s coach, adding that the amount was on the low end for A10 coaches.
3. I am truly just guessing that BR’s salary is roughly $200,000.
So yes, that is admittedly a guess. In any case, I do not think we pay our coaches very high, relative to what coaches at other schools make.
4. The difference between the Davidson coach salary 4 years ago
and BR’s “guessed” $200,000 salary now is $200,000. Therefore, I believe we need $200,000 to increase BR’s salary now to the point of being competitive with where one of the lowest A10 school salary was 4 years ago. Maybe we do not need to increase BR’s salary that much presently, but we certainly need to have it budgeted immediately for not later than when he has won 2 or 3 SoCon regular season championships and or 2 or 3 SoCon tournament championships, any some combination of 2 or 3 of either regular season or tournament combined.
5. On top of that $200,000 needed for the HC, I believe we need that same amount to increase the salary budget for our assistant coaches and for recruiting efforts.
6. $200,000 + $200,000 = $400,000.
I doubt that is too much, but if it is, then use the “excess” for additional facilities improvement or for subsidizing students’ travel to some distant NCAA tourney games when we make that (such as Davidson has done for basketball and such as Northwestern is doing currently for a football game).
7. Do not forget the need to correspondingly increase the salary budget for our women’s basketball coaching staff. So some of that $400,000 might have to go to that need.

FYI: ETSU athletic director Scott Carter announced Monday (FEB 2018) that Forbes has signed a new contract that will run through the 2022-23 season. Forbes will make at least $650,000 a year under the new deal. The new contract raises Forbes' base salary to $400,000 and his yearly stipend to $50,000.

There are also probably perks (e.g., free use of car, zero interest home loan, concubine, etc.)

But one can only hope that the administration will realize that no matter how many football games we win, when the Mens BB teams beat Loyola and Villanova we get more good publicity and press than at any other time. Time to really put some big $$ behind this program, as it has been proven that such visibility helps drive more admissions, admissions from different regions and helps our name become known to a whole new group of prospective students and parents.

furpep wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:48 am

But one can only hope that the administration will realize that no matter how many football games we win, when the Mens BB teams beat Loyola and Villanova we get more good publicity and press than at any other time. Time to really put some big $$ behind this program, as it has been proven that such visibility helps drive more admissions, admissions from different regions and helps our name become known to a whole new group of prospective students and parents.

Absolutely the truth. We could win the FCS championship and never get the national publicity we have achieved in the last week. So far, they have not gotten it. If it was not for a few individuals, this program would still be at the bottom.