The Unofficial Furman Football Page

What three things are you most looking forward to in the new season?

*who will be first off the bench? Richey gave us a hint when he mentioned Anderson, Pugh and Foster in recent podcast.

*how do our new players look? Including redshirts like Foster. Usually by now I would have been to a practice or two to check them out. I’m in the dark this year.

*Can Noah and Clay take the next step up? Would be great to see Clay as a consistent 3 point threat; he will have the green light. Let’s keep it green; no hesitation to take the shot!

Let’s play ball!

CharlieFU wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:13 am

What three things are you most looking forward to in the new season?

*who will be first off the bench? Richey gave us a hint when he mentioned Anderson, Pugh and Foster in recent podcast.

*how do our new players look? Including redshirts like Foster. Usually by now I would have been to a practice or two to check them out. I’m in the dark this year.

*Can Noah and Clay take the next step up? Would be great to see Clay as a consistent 3 point threat; he will have the green light. Let’s keep it green; no hesitation to take the shot!

Let’s play ball!

I’m curious to see if we still rely heavily on 3’s without any really good 3 point shooters. Hopefully we’ll either up our percentage or shoot fewer 3’s. For the last couple of years it seemed like every game I watched we were having an off night from 3 (which indicates they aren’t really off nights). That’s how you lose to people you shouldn’t lose to.

CharlieFU wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:13 am

What three things are you most looking forward to in the new season?

*who will be first off the bench? Richey gave us a hint when he mentioned Anderson, Pugh and Foster in recent podcast.

*how do our new players look? Including redshirts like Foster. Usually by now I would have been to a practice or two to check them out. I’m in the dark this year.

*Can Noah and Clay take the next step up? Would be great to see Clay as a consistent 3 point threat; he will have the green light. Let’s keep it green; no hesitation to take the shot!

Let’s play ball!

According to CBR both Noah and Clay have taken their game to another level. Clay had 31 in a recent scrimmage and is shooting lights out. Look for Anderson to be first off the bench as he had 11 assists out of a team total of 23 in the same scrimmage. A little concern is no height coming off the bench. CBR said we could see 3 point guards at times.

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:47 am

CharlieFU wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:13 am

What three things are you most looking forward to in the new season?

*who will be first off the bench? Richey gave us a hint when he mentioned Anderson, Pugh and Foster in recent podcast.

*how do our new players look? Including redshirts like Foster. Usually by now I would have been to a practice or two to check them out. I’m in the dark this year.

*Can Noah and Clay take the next step up? Would be great to see Clay as a consistent 3 point threat; he will have the green light. Let’s keep it green; no hesitation to take the shot!

Let’s play ball!

I’m curious to see if we still rely heavily on 3’s without any really good 3 point shooters. Hopefully we’ll either up our percentage or shoot fewer 3’s. For the last couple of years it seemed like every game I watched we were having an off night from 3 (which indicates they aren’t really off nights). That’s how you lose to people you shouldn’t lose to.

Yes I think this team needs to rely heavily on the 3 pointer. It’s a misconception that this team does not shoot the 3 well. Shot 35.2% last year and finished in the top 80 in the country. Same percentage as teams like Duke and Arizona. Our opponents shot 30.6%. Only one team in the entire country shot 40%.(BYU). Sure we had some off nights as all teams do but FU is a good shooting 3 point team. Remember making 2 3’s is the same as making 3 2’s.

I have one huge question mark that I want to see an answer to, we need one 'Big' to be able to contribute off the bench, one of either Hein, Lawrence or Beeker needs to step up. Last season any time we got foul trouble on Slawson, Gurley or Mounce we had our hands tied the entire remainder of the game, we need a big guy off the bench that we can rely on this year!

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:47 am

I’m curious to see if we still rely heavily on 3’s without any really good 3 point shooters. Hopefully we’ll either up our percentage or shoot fewer 3’s. For the last couple of years it seemed like every game I watched we were having an off night from 3 (which indicates they aren’t really off nights). That’s how you lose to people you shouldn’t lose to.

That's not how things work. For starters, as apaladin pointed out, the team's 3-point numbers were actually good last year, which was the case in 2019 also. But that's only part of the story. The Paladins' offense uses the *threat* of the 3-pointer to open up space for high-% 2-point shots. Here is Furman's national rank in 2-point FG% by year under Richey:

2018: 9th
2019: 7th
2020: 4th

That's out of around 350 teams. Furman's main offensive weakness was offensive rebounding, with mediocre free throw shooting and too many steals allowed being other drawbacks. Even so, the Paladins had one of the most potent offenses of any mid-major (and #78 among all programs).

youwouldno wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:27 am

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:47 am

I’m curious to see if we still rely heavily on 3’s without any really good 3 point shooters. Hopefully we’ll either up our percentage or shoot fewer 3’s. For the last couple of years it seemed like every game I watched we were having an off night from 3 (which indicates they aren’t really off nights). That’s how you lose to people you shouldn’t lose to.

That's not how things work. For starters, as apaladin pointed out, the team's 3-point numbers were actually good last year, which was the case in 2019 also. But that's only part of the story. The Paladins' offense uses the *threat* of the 3-pointer to open up space for high-% 2-point shots. Here is Furman's national rank in 2-point FG% by year under Richey:

2018: 9th
2019: 7th
2020: 4th

That's out of around 350 teams. Furman's main offensive weakness was offensive rebounding, with mediocre free throw shooting and too many steals allowed being other drawbacks. Even so, the Paladins had one of the most potent offenses of any mid-major (and #78 among all programs).

We were #80 in percentage but #21 in attempts. Duke was #79 and #251. So Coach K said, “We aren’t great at 3’s so let’s not depend on them.” We used the opposite philosophy. We’ve had players in the past near the top 10 in attempts who were unranked in percentage. I assume it was because we had no option.So I still say if you have one of the most 3-dependent programs in D1, you need to shoot a lot better (unless just having a shot at the SoCon championship is the goal). I suspect that our 2 percentage is helped by having an usually high percentage of 2’s coming from break aways rather from the offense.

I admit I’m a stick in the mud and yearn for the Mayes- Leonard days when you could be ice cold and it didn’t matter.

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:00 pm

We were #80 in percentage but #21 in attempts. Duke was #79 and #251. So Coach K said, “We aren’t great at 3’s so let’s not depend on them.” We used the opposite philosophy. We’ve had players in the past near the top 10 in attempts who were unranked in percentage. I assume it was because we had no option.So I still say if you have one of the most 3-dependent programs in D1, you need to shoot a lot better (unless just having a shot at the SoCon championship is the goal). I suspect that our 2 percentage is helped by having an usually high percentage of 2’s coming from break aways rather from the offense.

I admit I’m a stick in the mud and yearn for the Mayes- Leonard days when you could be ice cold and it didn’t matter.

Every single aspect of your post is factually wrong, including your understanding of Duke's 3-point shooting. Hate to be the one to break it to you, but basketball has changed a lot in the past 40 years.

In the past 24 years of Furman basketball, here's how Richey's offenses rank:

2018: 3rd out of 24
2019: 2nd out of 24
2020: 1st out of 24

I think I'll go ahead and stick with that program vs. a trip down memory lane from someone who is still holding out against the 3-point shot.

youwouldno wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:45 pm

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:00 pm

We were #80 in percentage but #21 in attempts. Duke was #79 and #251. So Coach K said, “We aren’t great at 3’s so let’s not depend on them.” We used the opposite philosophy. We’ve had players in the past near the top 10 in attempts who were unranked in percentage. I assume it was because we had no option.So I still say if you have one of the most 3-dependent programs in D1, you need to shoot a lot better (unless just having a shot at the SoCon championship is the goal). I suspect that our 2 percentage is helped by having an usually high percentage of 2’s coming from break aways rather from the offense.

I admit I’m a stick in the mud and yearn for the Mayes- Leonard days when you could be ice cold and it didn’t matter.

Every single aspect of your post is factually wrong, including your understanding of Duke's 3-point shooting. Hate to be the one to break it to you, but basketball has changed a lot in the past 40 years.

In the past 24 years of Furman basketball, here's how Richey's offenses rank:

2018: 3rd out of 24
2019: 2nd out of 24
2020: 1st out of 24

I think I'll go ahead and stick with that program vs. a trip down memory lane from someone who is still holding out against the 3-point shot.

I double checked and I’m pretty sure my facts are correct. Tell me what teams who shoot as many 3’s as us are good. There aren’t many. You said our REAL problem is offensive rebounding. That is to be expected. When everybody is hanging around the arc heaving 3’s you don’t get many rebounds. And even if somebody is in position, 3 rebounds are usually runaways so good position doesn’t mean much. That’s pretty basic stuff.

I love 3’s. But I don’t like being totally dependent on them. And my memory lane goes back a little further than 24 years to a time when we really were good and winning the conference was a given. I think we will get there. I think Coach has been doing it with smoke and mirrors so far, but in the next year or two will be able to run a more balanced offense.

It’s pretty simple to me. If we cut back on shooting the 3’s we will not be as successful. Agree about needing a big man to step up. Currently we only have guards coming off the bench. That could change during the ooc schedule as I’m sure a couple of bigs will get a look/opportunity.

Wow I guess nobody on this thread watched the 2 Nattys Villanova won and saw how many 3s they shot...the game has changed. Just watch the NBA. All 3s.

Ncpaladin10 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:42 pm

Wow I guess nobody on this thread watched the 2 Nattys Villanova won and saw how many 3s they shot...the game has changed. Just watch the NBA. All 3s.

Seems like you didn't read the thread since only 1 person has a beef with the 3-point shot.

That guy missed a number of good college teams that shoot a lot of threes . . . San Diego State, Creighton, Maryland, Auburn, Wisconsin, as mentioned Villanova, and others.

None of those shoot as many as FU, and only two, VIL and AUB are in the top 50 in 3 attempts. VIL shoots better than us. AUB shoots terrible, but they make them in streaks. Pretty sure those are the only ranked teams in top 50 of 3 attempts.

The top 25 are:
N FLA. 16-15
VMI. 9-24
St Jo. 17-15
Colgate. 25-9
Bama. 16-15
Wofford. 19-16
Elon. 13-21
Rice 15-17
Winthrop 24-10
Belmont. 26-7
LIU. 15-18
ND. 20-12
San Fran. 22-12
Va Tech. 16-16
UTSA. 13-19
Coppin St. 11-20
Quin 15-15
Purdue Ft W 14-19
San Jose St. 7-24
UNCG. 23-9
Furman. 25-7
Long. 14-18
10 VIL 24-7 #50 in %
Citadel. 6-24
NDSU. 25-18

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am

None of those shoot as many as FU, and only two, VIL and AUB are in the top 50 in 3 attempts. VIL shoots better than us. AUB shoots terrible, but they make them in streaks. Pretty sure those are the only ranked teams in top 50 of 3 attempts.

The top 25 are:
N FLA. 16-15
VMI. 9-24
St Jo. 17-15
Colgate. 25-9
Bama. 16-15
Wofford. 19-16
Elon. 13-21
Rice 15-17
Winthrop 24-10
Belmont. 26-7
LIU. 15-18
ND. 20-12
San Fran. 22-12
Va Tech. 16-16
UTSA. 13-19
Coppin St. 11-20
Quin 15-15
Purdue Ft W 14-19
San Jose St. 7-24
UNCG. 23-9
Furman. 25-7
Long. 14-18
10 VIL 24-7 #50 in %
Citadel. 6-24
NDSU. 25-18

The question becomes what would those records be without shooting a lot of 3’s?

apaladin wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:56 am

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am

None of those shoot as many as FU, and only two, VIL and AUB are in the top 50 in 3 attempts. VIL shoots better than us. AUB shoots terrible, but they make them in streaks. Pretty sure those are the only ranked teams in top 50 of 3 attempts.

The top 25 are:
N FLA. 16-15
VMI. 9-24
St Jo. 17-15
Colgate. 25-9
Bama. 16-15
Wofford. 19-16
Elon. 13-21
Rice 15-17
Winthrop 24-10
Belmont. 26-7
LIU. 15-18
ND. 20-12
San Fran. 22-12
Va Tech. 16-16
UTSA. 13-19
Coppin St. 11-20
Quin 15-15
Purdue Ft W 14-19
San Jose St. 7-24
UNCG. 23-9
Furman. 25-7
Long. 14-18
10 VIL 24-7 #50 in %
Citadel. 6-24
NDSU. 25-18

The question becomes what would those records be without shooting a lot of 3’s?

Most would be awful because their guys can’t do anything else. If they could, they would. We don’t want to be in that boat, do we? I don’t see what is controversial about suggesting a balanced offense like the top teams use if we want to be a top team. I’m confident Coach is moving in that direction.