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$ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:54 am
by Fessor
What the victory over Virginia meant financially for UMBC and America East conference, ignoring increased apparel sales, applications, ticket sales next season, etc.:
"The NCAA distributes a portion of NCAA Tournament revenue through the Basketball Fund, a multimillion pool made up of units. One unit is earned by making an appearance in a tournament game. So, for example, UMBC earned one unit for just appearing in the First Round. Each unit is worth $273,000 each year for the next six years, or $1.638 million total. The money is paid out to the conferences, who decide how to split it up among members."
"With UMBC advancing to play Kansas State in the Second Round, they earned an additional $1.638 million for the America East, bringing their total to $3.276 million. The conferences pay out the money however they wish but, for example, if they were to distribute it evenly among all nine members, that's $364,000 per school."
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:40 am
by Monday
Stop endowing the football team! That money is better used for basketball
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:54 pm
by Paul C
Here we go
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:16 pm
by furpop16
Monday wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:40 am
Stop endowing the football team! That money is better used for basketball
Heresy. Especially on a website with "Football" in the subtitle. Moreover, as some studies (google the internet) show a direct correlation between alumni giving and the success of the football team, there's a financial incentive to investing heavily in both. And I say this as an FU parent living in So. Cal. where any west-coast recruiting is likely to be more impacted by the national exposure gained from strengthening the basketball program. Football is in the genes at FU and subduing its funding would threaten the culture which made my daughter love the school. Don't change a thing on that regard, I say.
(Word of caution to the Football fans among my newfound friends here on GoPaladins: this CTE thing is scary, and I'd be more than a little worried about the long-term threat which that poses to the Football program than by the zero-sum rantings of my GoPaladins Basketball pals.)
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:35 pm
by Monday
https://sports.yahoo.com/publicity-umbc ... 24907.html
You cannot receive this type of publicity from a mid-major football program. And all 3 of the other cited upset schools have had continued success.
UMBC also just opened a $85 million basketball/multi-use facility. This school has set itself up for a long time.
And it's not heresy if I want what's best for FU. Iconoclasm is a better word.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:21 pm
by apaladin
Excuse me, what happened to UMBC has never happened before. We have not made the NCAA in 38 years, regardless of how much money would be put in the basketball program you still have to win the SoCon tourney. I for one am not willing to give up football for something that may never happen and even if it did I would still not be willing to give up all the enjoyment football provides me and my family for a few days of national publicity.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:05 pm
by Monday
The article refers to teams that weren't 16 seeds but were from conferences very similar to the SoCon. They won a first round game and brought their schools a huge financial windfall. Our football, no matter how well they do, can never bring Furman the national exposure just an appearance in the Big Dance can. That is undeniable. And , yes, putting money in the basketball program will increase our chances of winning the SoCon.
And you can enjoy football just as much when we're in the Pioneer League.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:24 am
by Stumpy
The football team can pick up a half a million once or twice a year by playing a big team. How does basketball do in that respect? I honestly don't know.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:40 am
by Bootie
Unless I'm missing something, using the math from the initial post, each year the NCAA gives out:
First round of 64 = $104,832,000
Second round of 32 = $52,416,000
Sweet 16 = $26, 208,000
Elite 8 = $13,104,000
Final 4 = $6,552,000
Final = $3,276,000
TOTAL: $206,388,000
Anyone know how much money the NCAA brings in for the entire tourney?
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:51 am
by CharlieFU
Stumpy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:24 am
The football team can pick up a half a million once or twice a year by playing a big team. How does basketball do in that respect? I honestly don't know.
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The basketball team plays at least 3 money games each year. I am sure the total amount is less than football gets for the one game. But then again b-ball budget is but a fraction of football. So both teams have to do some work themselves.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:23 am
by soconjohn
As much as I love Furman hoops, Furman is a football school...Bottom line...It's unique though and the schism that might exist between the two sports at bigger schools doesn't exist at Furman...Furman's record and success speaks for itself in football...But it also possible to have success in hoops too...More so at an FCS football school and in mid-major hoops than say at power five football and hoops school.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:15 pm
by tya1
Bootie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:40 am
Unless I'm missing something, using the math from the initial post, each year the NCAA gives out:
First round of 64 = $104,832,000
Second round of 32 = $52,416,000
Sweet 16 = $26, 208,000
Elite 8 = $13,104,000
Final 4 = $6,552,000
Final = $3,276,000
TOTAL: $206,388,000
Anyone know how much money the NCAA brings in for the entire tourney?
The math is more complicated than that.
Each appearance in the NCAA tournament plus each win (with one exception) earns a conference one "unit." If you get one team in the tournament the conference gets the value of one unit of funds. Two teams get you two units. If both teams won one game the conference would get four units. Wins in the play-in games also get credit for one unit. The Big South conference will get two units credit from this year's tournament because Radford won their play-in game. The exception is that the national champion does not earn a unit for winning it all. The units stop after the semi-final games.
The units are paid out for six years at the stated value. So the SoCon, for example, will get six units this year. One for 2012, one for 2013, one for 2014, and 2015, 2016, 2017. Units earned this year will be paid starting next year and each year until 2024.
The amount increases each year. Last year a unit was worth $265,700 per year for six years. This year that increased to $273,200. Next year it will be $280,800. By 2022 it will be $297,100.
The NCAA tournament is worth about $700 million a year according to the latest info I've seen. The NCAA keeps about 40% and distributes the other 60% to the conferences. Some of the 60% is paid out through other programs not connected to wins and losses in the basketball tournament. The conferences decide how to divide the money. I think the SoCon uses some for the conference office expenses and splits the rest equally - except the conference representative gets an extra share. If a team leaves a conference the money they earned through tournament success stays behind.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:21 pm
by fufanatic
tya1 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:15 pm
Bootie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:40 am
Unless I'm missing something, using the math from the initial post, each year the NCAA gives out:
First round of 64 = $104,832,000
Second round of 32 = $52,416,000
Sweet 16 = $26, 208,000
Elite 8 = $13,104,000
Final 4 = $6,552,000
Final = $3,276,000
TOTAL: $206,388,000
Anyone know how much money the NCAA brings in for the entire tourney?
The math is more complicated than that.
Each appearance in the NCAA tournament plus each win (with one exception) earns a conference one "unit." If you get one team in the tournament the conference gets the value of one unit of funds. Two teams get you two units. If both teams won one game the conference would get four units. Wins in the play-in games also get credit for one unit. The Big South conference will get two units credit from this year's tournament because Radford won their play-in game. The exception is that the national champion does not earn a unit for winning it all. The units stop after the semi-final games.
The units are paid out for six years at the stated value. So the SoCon, for example, will get six units this year. One for 2012, one for 2013, one for 2014, and 2015, 2016, 2017. Units earned this year will be paid starting next year and each year until 2024.
The amount increases each year. Last year a unit was worth $265,700 per year for six years. This year that increase to $273,200. Next year it will be $280,800. By 2012 it will be $297,100.
The NCAA tournament is worth about $700 million a year according to the latest info I've seen. The NCAA keeps about 40% and distributes the other 60% to the conferences. Some of the 60% is paid out through other programs not connected to wins and losses in the basketball tournament. The conferences decide how to divide the money. I think the SoCon uses some for the conference office expenses and splits the rest equally - except the conference representative gets an extra share. If a team leaves a conference the money they earned through tournament success stays behind.
That's exactly how it's been explained to me as well. I think I said this in a separate thread, but given the above, it's so easy to see how a money disparity develops across the sport and how much it helps the power conferences when the ACC or whoever gets 8-10 teams in instead of a mid-major getting 2.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:23 pm
by BackupQB
I promise this isn't snark, this is a genuinely honest question:
Invest heavily in basketball... to what end?
What's the goal here? You say "exposure." Is the goal for Furman to be more famous?
As others have said, what UMBC accomplished was a once-in-several-lifetimes event. To go all in on NCAA Tournament fame is a huge gamble, and not one that I'm sure makes that big of a difference for anyone. Do you think kids are lining up to attend Valporaiso because of that time they were Cinderella? Or remember when George Mason made that crazy run to the Final Four? George Mason had a losing record overall this year.
If the goal is to be one of these schools, just know that it's a 15 minutes of fame situation. None of these programs are significantly different in the long run. To rise to truly elite status is incredibly rare (Gonzaga would be the closest case I could think of), and to create a culture of sustained winning is always difficult.
And beyond that, getting to the NCAA tournament at all is not just a matter of throwing millions of dollars around. We're a mid-major school, and mid-major schools, by and large, have one way to get to the NCAA tournament - win your conference tournament. Period. We were good enough to do that this year, but it's a tall order, even when you're good enough. I'm confident that we're going to have a lot of teams in the near future that are good enough. Eventually we'll make it.
From what I can tell, our administration is doing the best they can to create a long term culture of winning in BOTH football and basketball (and the rest of the sports). And, though it's taking time (doing things right always does), I'm pretty satisfied with the job they're doing.
I hope to and plan to enjoy watching both of these teams for years to come.
Re: $ Value of NCAA appearance, winning first round game
PostPosted:Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:27 pm
by ksummerlin
Bootie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:40 am
Unless I'm missing something, using the math from the initial post, each year the NCAA gives out:
First round of 64 = $104,832,000
Second round of 32 = $52,416,000
Sweet 16 = $26, 208,000
Elite 8 = $13,104,000
Final 4 = $6,552,000
Final = $3,276,000
TOTAL: $206,388,000
Anyone know how much money the NCAA brings in for the entire tourney?
The TV deal alone makes them over $1bn a year if you can believe the numbers of the recent contract extension.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basket ... cbs-turner
Investopedia puts the revenue figure around $1bn as well.