Schedule

[DungeonRealm]

I realize that he’s probably thought of it. Just interesting to me you don’t really hear of other schools that Furman likes to emulate have these types of issues. And last time I emailed John dangelo, my email was ignored

On the latest podcast yesterday he specifically mentions calling other SoCon coaches to discuss scheduling, he specifically said Steve Forbes and Wes Miller told him they are having a really really tough time with scheduling this year as well

[cavedweller2]

Teams with NCAA aspirations dont want a beat down from a SoCon team on their tourney resume.

[gman]

I realize that he’s probably thought of it. Just interesting to me you don’t really hear of other schools that Furman likes to emulate have these types of issues. And last time I emailed John dangelo, my email was ignored

Did you spell his name correctly in the e-mail. It's Jon DAngelo. Jon has always been responsive to me. His e-mail address is jon.dangelo@furman.edu.

[PaladinPower]

Not shocked about the situation at all. You knock off half of the Final Four from the year before and only lose 1 starter. Almost gave Witchita St. a run for their money, so of course no P6 teams want to come thru Timmons. Ideally, we pull a 2 for 1 with one of those schools like Wofford... Speaking of that team, no wonder they were able to schedule so many P6 games. Lost almost half their scoring, rebounding and their head coach. Before last season, the team was never outstanding so I can see why teams didn't mind scheduling them last season as well.

[apaladin]

Not shocked about the situation at all. You knock off half of the Final Four from the year before and only lose 1 starter. Almost gave Witchita St. a run for their money, so of course no P6 teams want to come thru Timmons. Ideally, we pull a 2 for 1 with one of those schools like Wofford... Speaking of that team, no wonder they were able to schedule so many P6 games. Lost almost half their scoring, rebounding and their head coach. Before last season, the team was never outstanding so I can see why teams didn't mind scheduling them last season as well.

Could be wrong but I really don't think how good/bad you are has much to do with it. Yes WC seems to get more "good" away games but I think that may be more of a preferred way of scheduling. WC seems to want 5 good road games a year. FU seems to want no more than 3. FU wants more home games regardless if they are even an NCAA team or not. Everyone seems to be struggling to get games even bad teams like VMI and UTC.
WC- 13 OOC 6 home 7 away- 2 non D1 Great away schedule with Duke, UNC, Missouri, Butler, S Florida. D1 home games are GWU, W&M, High Point and NCCU. Certainly not a great home schedule.

VMI- 13 OOC 6 home 7 away 3 non D1 games Decent road games: VPI and ECU. D1 home games are Marist, PC and Stetson. VMI is bad and they can't get a good schedule.

UTC- 13 OOC 5 home 8 away, 2 non D1 games Good away games: FSU, VPI and Tennessee. D1 home games Tenn. St, Troy and South Ala. Evidence of schedule struggling is UTC is playing Troy home and home.

This just goes to show you how hard it is for SoCon teams to get home games.

[cavedweller2]

Not shocked about the situation at all. You knock off half of the Final Four from the year before and only lose 1 starter. Almost gave Witchita St. a run for their money, so of course no P6 teams want to come thru Timmons. Ideally, we pull a 2 for 1 with one of those schools like Wofford... Speaking of that team, no wonder they were able to schedule so many P6 games. Lost almost half their scoring, rebounding and their head coach. Before last season, the team was never outstanding so I can see why teams didn't mind scheduling them last season as well.

UTC- 13 OOC 5 home 8 away, 2 non D1 games Good away games: FSU, VPI and Tennessee. Non D1 home games Tenn. St, Troy and South Ala. Evidence of schedule struggling is UTC is playing Troy home and home.

Tennesse State plays in the Ohio Valley
Troy and South Alabama play in the Sun Belt

Both conferences are D-1

[fufanatic]

Teams with NCAA aspirations dont want a beat down from a SoCon team on their tourney resume.

Nor do coaches at bigger schools on the hot seat. BR's explanation on yesterday's podcast makes a ton of sense, and I'm going to choose to believe him. He certainly mentioned more than most coaches would on the scheduling struggles. And I agree with him that I would LOVE to see the list of schools that said no. I bet it includes at least 3 schools in the state of South Carolina. My gut is Davidson said no too.

It's disappointing, but just the way it is. I think as a general rule, he likes to keep the non-conference home/away games pretty close, which I get. So scheduling a heaping helping of Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc. gets you money, but limits home games and probably wins. I think the best schedule, and what BR probably wants is one big school that's really good (Auburn this year) that puts you on the map with a win (Villanova last year), another couple of schools that are bigger and either decent or not great (couple of winnable games if things go well, I.E. Loyola-Chicago), a couple of road games with schools more our size or level (A-Sun, A-10, Colonial, Big South), a handful of home games against schools more our size and level and then 2 non-DI games. I would still argue the latter should be North Greenville, Newberry, Lander, etc. and not some NAIA school in Virginia, but potato potato I suppose.

[apaladin]

Not shocked about the situation at all. You knock off half of the Final Four from the year before and only lose 1 starter. Almost gave Witchita St. a run for their money, so of course no P6 teams want to come thru Timmons. Ideally, we pull a 2 for 1 with one of those schools like Wofford... Speaking of that team, no wonder they were able to schedule so many P6 games. Lost almost half their scoring, rebounding and their head coach. Before last season, the team was never outstanding so I can see why teams didn't mind scheduling them last season as well.

UTC- 13 OOC 5 home 8 away, 2 non D1 games Good away games: FSU, VPI and Tennessee. Non D1 home games Tenn. St, Troy and South Ala. Evidence of schedule struggling is UTC is playing Troy home and home.

Tennesse State plays in the Ohio Valley
Troy and South Alabama play in the Sun Belt

Both conferences are D-1

That was an error of course. It should read D1 home games. Fixed it.

[apaladin]

Update to the above games. Both ETSU and UNCG are playing at Kansas so that makes 2 Big 12 game for the SoCon. IMHO I would much rather play a P6 team on the road than play a nobody at home and win by 40-50 points. I am a season ticket holder and I would gladly give up 1-3 home games a year for quality road games but that doesn't seem to be the case. We used to count on SC and Clempson for a game or 2 per year but since Martin and Brownell have arrived they will not play FU.

[PaladinPower]

I know that we went to Loyola with the intent to bring many of MR's family and friends to watch him play. I wonder if we were able to land a 1 and 1 with them? If so, could have the appeal that the Wichita St. game had. Only MVC, but I agree with CBR that it benefits the team more to schedule teams in conferences that will be similar in size to the Socon like MVC, A-10, Colonial, ASUN, and Patriot rather than go on a road to play Butler, Duke, UNC, Mizzou, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

[Affirm]

Update to the above games. Both ETSU and UNCG are playing at Kansas so that makes 2 Big 12 game for the SoCon. IMHO I would much rather play a P6 team on the road than play a nobody at home and win by 40-50 points. I am a season ticket holder and I would gladly give up 1-3 home games a year for quality road games but that doesn't seem to be the case. We used to count on SC and Clempson for a game or 2 per year but since Martin and Brownell have arrived they will not play FU.

I ditto your sentence that starts “I am a season ticket holder ... for quality road games ....”

[Affirm]

I know that we went to Loyola with the intent to bring many of MR's family and friends to watch him play. I wonder if we were able to land a 1 and 1 with them? If so, could have the appeal that the Wichita St. game had. Only MVC, but I agree with CBR that it benefits the team more to schedule teams in conferences that will be similar in size to the Socon like MVC, A-10, Colonial, ASUN, and Patriot rather than go on a road to play Butler, Duke, UNC, Mizzou, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

MR is coach and it is his responsibility to improve the quality of Furman basketball. If he can do that by playing conferences similar in level to SoCon, then do it. I still want to see Furman play 2-3 games a year against the likes of Georgetown and Duke and Butler and Kansas, etc.

[Affirm]

I know that we went to Loyola with the intent to bring many of MR's family and friends to watch him play. I wonder if we were able to land a 1 and 1 with them? If so, could have the appeal that the Wichita St. game had. Only MVC, but I agree with CBR that it benefits the team more to schedule teams in conferences that will be similar in size to the Socon like MVC, A-10, Colonial, ASUN, and Patriot rather than go on a road to play Butler, Duke, UNC, Mizzou, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

Appeal of Wichita State could have been that they already were good and getting better, for example, they are now AAC not MVC.
Appeal of Loyola: they have won the NCAA before and they have been in final four very recently.
Just being from MVC does not necessarily make teams attractive opponents for our home games; but certainly better than a lot of other options.

[Affirm]

Teams with NCAA aspirations dont want a beat down from a SoCon team on their tourney resume.

Nor do coaches at bigger schools on the hot seat. BR's explanation on yesterday's podcast makes a ton of sense, and I'm going to choose to believe him. He certainly mentioned more than most coaches would on the scheduling struggles. And I agree with him that I would LOVE to see the list of schools that said no. I bet it includes at least 3 schools in the state of South Carolina. My gut is Davidson said no too.

It's disappointing, but just the way it is. I think as a general rule, he likes to keep the non-conference home/away games pretty close, which I get. So scheduling a heaping helping of Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc. gets you money, but limits home games and probably wins. I think the best schedule, and what BR probably wants is one big school that's really good (Auburn this year) that puts you on the map with a win (Villanova last year), another couple of schools that are bigger and either decent or not great (couple of winnable games if things go well, I.E. Loyola-Chicago), a couple of road games with schools more our size or level (A-Sun, A-10, Colonial, Big South), a handful of home games against schools more our size and level and then 2 non-DI games. I would still argue the latter should be North Greenville, Newberry, Lander, etc. and not some NAIA school in Virginia, but potato potato I suppose.

We have many to choose from in SC and nearby. NGU, Newberry, Lander, as you mentioned. Add Anderson, Erskine, Francis Marion, Coker, Augusta University, Georgia College and State University, Benedict, Lenoir-Rhyne, Mars Hill, Belmont Abbey, Catawba, Claflin, Flagler, Florida Southern, and others who are close.
So maybe we could have a good 13-game OOC schedule that would include 6 games at home (2 from the above), 7 games away (3 from Power 6).
4 at home and 4 away games against at least 1 team from each of Big South, Patriot, CAA, ASUN, MVC, and at least 1 “upper-level” mid-major D-1 conference.

[dinhead]

I've been doing a little research and here is what I have come up with in regards to Furman and the Southern Conference:
Furman: Known OOC games: Auburn
Only VMI, Wofford and UTC have released schedules: One interesting game is we play New Years Day at VMI at 1PM.
Furman plays at all 3 on the road before getting the home game.
SOCON GAMES VS. ACC:
WOFFORD: UNC, DUKE
WESTERN CAROLINA: FLORIDA STATE
UTC: FLORIDA STATE, VIRGINIA TECH
VMI: VIRGINIA TECH
UNCG: HOME WITH NC STATE
TOTAL: 7 GAMES SOCON VS ACC NOTE: CLEMPSON AND NC ST. HAVE RELEASED ONLY PARTIAL SCHEDULES.

SOCON GAMES VS. SEC:
FURMAN: FURMAN
ETSU: LSU
UTC: TENNESSEE
CITADEL: GEORGIA
WOFFORD: MISSOURI
TOTAL: 5 GAMES SOCON VS SEC NOTE: SC, MSU, ARK., ALA, TA&M, VANDY HAVE NOT RELEASED SCHEDULES.

SOCON GAMES VS. BIG TEN:
NO GAMES-NOTE: OSU AND ILLINOIS HAVE NOT RELEASED SCHEDULES. MINN AND MSU ARE INCOMPLETE

SOCON GAMES VS. BIG EAST:
UNCG: GEORGETOWN,
SAMFORD: GEORGETOWN
WCU: XAVIER
ST. JOHNS: MERCER
BUTLER: WOFFORD
TOTAL: 5 GAMES SOCON VS. BIG EAST

I DID NOT FIND ANY SOCON GAMES VS THE BIG 12 OR PAC 12 BUT MAY HAVE MISSED ONE. GOING BY THE ABOVE ALL SOCON TEAMS ARE STRUGGLING TO GET GMAES WITH THE 6 BEST CONFERENCES. ONLY SEVENTEEN GAMES VS THE 6 BEST CONFERENCES. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL GO UP A LITTLE WHEN ALL SCHEDULES ARE RELEASED.
WOFFORD HAS 4, UTC HAS 3, WCU AND UNCG HAVE 2 EACH. EVERYONE ELSE HAS ONE.

Well, then do we have prospect this season for any games vs. schools from the
AMERICAN (AAC) or
Conference USA (CUSA) or
the A10?
For example:
Memphis
Houston
Tulane
SMU
Navy
Tulsa
Cincinnati
UTSA
Rice
Charlotte
Dayton
Davidson
Fordham
George Washington
UMass
Richmond
CofC
Etc.
?
Or the Ivy League (is it really too cost-prohibitive in time or money for us to fly our team to Philadelphia, Boston, and NYC?)?
(If it’s Presbyterian, USC Upstate, UNCA, Gardner-Webb, Winthrop, SC State, Charleston Southern, Campbell, Radford, Longwood, those will of course be good opponents as well. Just hoping we can minimize the non-D-1 schools on the schedule.)

It is cost prohibitive if you don't play enough "money Games" against majors for more than $100,000 a pop or even mid-majors at $50,000-$80,000 per game. Had we replaced our two D-2 games last year with two $100,000 + away games we could have bought some quality home games with the extra revenue. It's even possible to buy a home game with a major if the price is right and maybe we could throw in a little cash on a "home and home" deal.

Unfortunately the least lucrative games are "home and homes" that involve airfare and hotels. The away team takes a hit on that one. However, with $200,000+ in additional revenue this certainly could be an affordable option that could lead to Ivy league games and even "home and homes" with top mid-majors (that would be cool !).