Questions about "the glory years" vs. now

[Affirm]

I'll take what is happening today with our basketballl program over the "glory days". We have a much better head coach, one that does it the right way. I am proud of where we are and what we are accomplishing. I was around for those years, but for me, these are the glory days. I will enjoy the moment. Go Paladins.

True.

[Roundball]

Wait a minute. Williams went to the NCAA FINAL, but the current coach is much better? And losing the SoCon every year is preferable to winning the SoCon every year?

Character and integrity mean something to me.

[Affirm]

I want to broach this subject delicately, because I know how passionate everyone is about the glory years under Joe Williams, but since I wasn't born yet, I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on a few things. I raise this question after someone posted in another thread something to the effect of realizing that we will never get back to that level again.

- When we made the tourney in 71, 73 & 74, there were 25 teams in the field. How were these teams selected? By auto-bid for conferences or just the 25 best teams in the country?

- In 75 and 78, there were 32 teams in the field. How were they selected?

- In 80, there were 48 teams. How were they selected?

My point being, if the glory days Furman teams were picked based on being one of the best 25, 32 or 48 teams in the country, then yes, that will be hard to obtain in the current world of college basketball (although not impossible with sustained success and growth)? But if those glory years teams made the tourney based purely on winning the SoCon, then yes, I think we can easily get back to that level. And we can certainly go 1-6 in the tourney, which isn't that impressive, although to be fair, 3 of the losses were by 3 points or less and a 4th was by 6 points. And I think we can have NBA prospects, host big schools in Greenville, get national attention. All those are possible. So just what about the glory years teams is unattainable with this current iteration of the Paladins, which is building quite a program that's gaining respect nationally? Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I think ALL of them were due to winning the conference tournament.
The conference teams in those years were slightly more prestigious than now, in my opinion. No disrespect nor “snobby ness” intended, but we did not have to have to play teams like Wofford & Mercer & Samford, at least not as our main competitors. Richmond, Davidson, W&M, etc., seemed like slightly higher profile teams. We were competitive against such teams. We either were still playing against the likes of WVU & George Washington, or else not many years past having those in the conference.
In the glory years, we were able to have both Clemson & USC come to play us. We had things like the North-South Doubleheader and the Poinsettia Classic. We were able to get games away, if not at home, against big schools other than SC & CU, at least as much as now.
The irony is that in the glory days we did not realize it was not going to always be that way. We did not realize they were glory days!!!!
What if now are glory days compared to what will be 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now.
What if 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now we are DIII or DII or still D1 but back to being highly mediocre like we’ve been for too many of the last 40 years?

Seriously? Can you imagine being a player or a coach and reading this? I can't anymore...these comments are so damn depressing and lacking in the slightest modicum of reality.

...see everyone tomorrow night at 6:45. Go Dins.

I don’t know if you are referring to comments I made about how these days could be looked back on as glory years. The references to DIII, DII, and “back to highly mediocre like we’ve been for too many of the last 40 years” were given merely as examples of situations that could come about in the distant but not too-distant future making “today and the last 5 or so years” seem like the glory years. I do not advocate any of those things (moving downward or backward) happening.

[Furmanoid]

Roundball, I value integrity too but what has that got to do with 1970’s basketball? Who beat Joe Williams in that final? John Wooden. Who had the highest paid players in college basketball? John Wooden. Who finally knocked off UCLA? NC State. Norm Sloan admitted that he paid players. I suppose Lefty was squeaky clean? McGuire? Knight was clean but sadistic. Now if your comment meant you didn’t think Joe paid enough, well ok. That’s probably why Bruce Grimm transferred to Providence.

[fufanatic]

So with the possible exception of probably not hosting these North Carolina - South Carolina showdowns anytime soon, I've heard no real reasons why the current Paladin program can't match or surpass what the glory years teams did. I just think we are all desperate for an NCAA berth and cling to when the program was last really good. I feel confident that if we secure one of those auto berths soon and pull an upset to advance in the tourney, that many on here will be able to breathe a big sigh of relief and have a little more perspective.

[Davemeister]

How many of the players Joe Williams brought to Furman during "The Glory Years" would be admitted to FU today?

What price "Glory"?

[GOAT]

Roundball, I value integrity too but what has that got to do with 1970’s basketball? Who beat Joe Williams in that final? John Wooden. Who had the highest paid players in college basketball? John Wooden. Who finally knocked off UCLA? NC State. Norm Sloan admitted that he paid players. I suppose Lefty was squeaky clean? McGuire? Knight was clean but sadistic. Now if your comment meant you didn’t think Joe paid enough, well ok. That’s probably why Bruce Grimm transferred to Providence.

We were a big time cheating program under Williams. Because others cheated does not make it right. Many schools in the 70's did not cheat or at least I have never heard they did. Tell me about the cheating at William and Mary, Richmond, Wake Forest, Duke, UNC, VMI, Citadel, IU, GT, App St, Virginia and many more during the 70's. I believe we are currently experiencing our best years in basketball. GO FU.

[apaladin]

Many of the big schools are still cheating(UNC-Duke-Ky) etc. Does anyone believe that any of the one and done players ever go to class at any of these schools? The UNC no class scandal was a total joke and went unpunished.

[Affirm]

Roundball, I value integrity too but what has that got to do with 1970’s basketball? Who beat Joe Williams in that final? John Wooden. Who had the highest paid players in college basketball? John Wooden. Who finally knocked off UCLA? NC State. Norm Sloan admitted that he paid players. I suppose Lefty was squeaky clean? McGuire? Knight was clean but sadistic. Now if your comment meant you didn’t think Joe paid enough, well ok. That’s probably why Bruce Grimm transferred to Providence.

We were a big time cheating program under Williams. Because others cheated does not make it right. Many schools in the 70's did not cheat or at least I have never heard they did. Tell me about the cheating at William and Mary, Richmond, Wake Forest, Duke, UNC, VMI, Citadel, IU, GT, App St, Virginia and many more during the 70's. I believe we are currently experiencing our best years in basketball. GO FU.

It is, to my knowledge, a false statement for one to say we were a cheating program in the 1970’s or 1960’s.

[Affirm]

How many of the players Joe Williams brought to Furman during "The Glory Years" would be admitted to FU today?

What price "Glory"?

It is, to my knowledge, untrue to say or to insinuate that many of the student-athletes Joe Williams brought to Furman during “the glory years” would not be admitted today.

[Furmanoid]

Wow, big time cheaters. And the players were all stupid too, is that right? Couldn’t reach Furman’s current SAT requirement, oh wait a minute Furman doesn’t even require an SAT. But you know, they just weren’t our kind of kid. I got ya.

[cavedweller2]

The Mayes/Leonard teams would walk the dog on this years team.

[GOAT]

Roundball, I value integrity too but what has that got to do with 1970’s basketball? Who beat Joe Williams in that final? John Wooden. Who had the highest paid players in college basketball? John Wooden. Who finally knocked off UCLA? NC State. Norm Sloan admitted that he paid players. I suppose Lefty was squeaky clean? McGuire? Knight was clean but sadistic. Now if your comment meant you didn’t think Joe paid enough, well ok. That’s probably why Bruce Grimm transferred to Providence.

We were a big time cheating program under Williams. Because others cheated does not make it right. Many schools in the 70's did not cheat or at least I have never heard they did. Tell me about the cheating at William and Mary, Richmond, Wake Forest, Duke, UNC, VMI, Citadel, IU, GT, App St, Virginia and many more during the 70's. I believe we are currently experiencing our best years in basketball. GO FU.

It is, to my knowledge, a false statement for one to say we were a cheating program in the 1970’s or 1960’s.

Either this comment is a joke or you are not aware that during Joe Williams time as head coach, Furman basketball players were paid to come to Furman, were paid while at Furman, cars were purchased for them and apartments furnished for them. Others have posted about this in the past and newspaper articles have been written about this. There was a former Williams player that ran for Congress from Ky (I think), that confirmed much of this before he ran around 1980 (I think).

[cavedweller2]

Baron Hill was elected to Congress from Indiana. He was a point guard on those teams. His wife taught 7th grade math to Freebird and I.

[fufanatic]

I personally don't feel comfortable questioning anyone's intelligence or comparing how smart or not smart a former Furman grad is compared to a more recent Furman grad. We are all part of the same family. Whether you graduated in 1850, 1950 or 2020.