Today’s Attendance

[Fred Garvin]

You can offer strippers on poles atop the fieldhouse and will not increase student attendance.....they don't care and will have no connection to OUR university once they pack their millenial carpetbags and head back home to Feelingshurt, Connecticut.....

Market the upstate!
Rumor has it our academic leaders do not want athletics to market heavily in SC

[sluggo]

It is heartening to see the responses here. There are some good individual suggestions. It is clear that many people responding understand the equation between winning (including getting out of the gate fast) and the size of the crowd. For us, there is little we can do about the winning part. I know there are some wannabe coaches on the forum. I'm not aware we have anyone who is actually on the staff right now providing input.

I know some people like Sluggo like to schedule harder games. And I know he could beat me up.

But if it's costing us attendance that has to be taken into the equation. Why? Because I actually asked a few people to come with me this year and they asked "what's Furman's record.?" I responded "0-2. ". "Later 0-3. ". They said "I'll pass ". They don't have a tie to the school so they want to come only if we are winning.

Less attendance leads to less atmosphere leads to harder recruiting !! That's big. That's why I say maybe FBS, Elon and Gardner Webb. Get a win in there. Start 1-1.

Helps player morale. Helps practice our basics. Helps encourage some attendance. Gives us better shot at playoffs ! If we could quit these 0-3 starts it would do tons for playoff chances ... And recruits want to play where they can go to the playoffs. Heck, if we were 1-1 to start this year we would probably be in control of making the playoffs

Of course winning the first games help; but last year we would have thought it was a great idea to open with ETSU.
ETSU might just win the conference though. So there is no guarantee of wining the first games no matter who is scheduled.

We barely beat Gardner Webb the last time and they beat us the year before that, so I don't see any guaranteed win.
I also don't think anyone is going to pick up the Sunday paper to see "Furman beats Gardener Webb" and then rush out to get season tickets because "Wow, Furman must be good now that they beat GW."
But if Furman had played Clemson to a 48-35 defeat, that would have created more interest then beating GW by 50.


Playing better teams makes a difference :

https://247sports.com/college/appalachi ... ve-155433/

5.) No. 16 Appalachian State 26, No. 9 Furman 23 (3OT):
Oct. 19, 1991, Greenville, S.C.
Paladin Stadium (13,233)


4.) No. 6 Furman 34, No. 16 Appalachian State 31
Oct. 8, 2005 Greenville, S.C.
Paladin Stadium (14,138)



3.) No. 12 Appalachian State 33, Furman 28
Nov. 10, 2012, Boone, N.C.
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (28,896)

2.) No. 5 Appalachian State 16, No. 3 Furman 15
Oct. 12, 2002, Boone, N.C.
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (15,331)
“Miracle On The Mountain”

The incredible ending to the contest drew national attention, which ABC would tab as its Sports Radio Call of the Year.


1.) No. 5 Appalachian State 29,No. 3 Furman 23
Dec. 10, 2005, Boone, N.C., (Division I-AA Semifinals)
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (15,307)

[sluggo]

The "product on the field" is made up of two teams; not just Furman.
Ticket sales will improve with the quality of the product on the field.
Which means playing better teams at home to improve home game attendance.

If it's really hard to get some better teams to play in Paladin Stadium then increase the incentive.
Give up the entire gate plus a guaranteed amount.
Having better teams on the home schedule should cause better season ticket sales and build a bigger fan base.
I think it would pay for itself in short time.

[paladinduece]

Empty stands don't help recruiting

[apaladin]

Out of curiosity, I checked North Greenville’s attendance figures. They are averaging 3,242 fans a game this year. Most high school games draw more that that.

A very few maybe but certainly not most.

[fufanatic]

The only way the opponent is going to matter in helping sale tickets to Paladin Stadium is if they have a big traveling fan base. Which I'm not sure how many of those are left in FCS. I know NDSU does, but I can't imagine a scenario where either university would sign up for a non-conference home and home during the regular season. I hope I'm wrong, but when's the last time we played a non-conference FCS regular season game that wasn't in the Southeast or Northeast? That said, even if we can get an FCS school with a big traveling base to Furman, I don't think it will help the home side much. No casual football fan has heard of hardly any FCS schools and it certainly wouldn't get them excited even if they had.

The key is getting families in the Upstate to take a chance on Furman games as a better and cheaper alternative to going to Clemson and USC among other options. I know one Furman alum who had USC season tickets for years, but gave them up this year for Furman season tickets. Seemed to have based it purely on a better atmosphere for his young kids. You get those families invested, those kids grow up Furman fans, the team starts winning and more people show up and it starts snowballing.

It absolutely does concern me that the football model at Furman is in danger if attendance keeps declining. And the ones that are in attendance skew to a certain age demographic. Which is fine, that crowd is very passionate and gives a lot of money, but it's not sustainable over the next 10-20 years. There has to be a young crowd that can be there to take over, and it's not right now.

[AHB1188]

You are spot on, fufanatic. That's very similar to how I became invested in the program. Although there's nothing like the atmosphere of big time college football, there's a high price to pay in dollars and time commitment. At Furman, a Greenville family can have a college football experience that doesn't require the hassle that comes with attending a game at a large program in the ACC or SEC. I think that constituency will be important to keeping Furman athletics viable in the longer term.

[gman]

You are spot on, fufanatic. That's very similar to how I became invested in the program. Although there's nothing like the atmosphere of big time college football, there's a high price to pay in dollars and time commitment. At Furman, a Greenville family can have a college football experience that doesn't require the hassle that comes with attending a game at a large program in the ACC or SEC. I think that constituency will be important to keeping Furman athletics viable in the longer term.

I hope there are more like you that make the change sooner than later. If Furman has a marketing department, it needs to market the approach you described.

[Flagman]

The article in Saturday's Greenville News (front page, print edition) chronicled the high cost of attending a game at Clemson. The average ticket price at Clemson is over $69.00, with a low of $40 for Furman and Ga. Sou., and $110 for USC. For a family of four to any game but USC still costs over $300, including parking, and minimal concessions. Certainly, Furman football is a bargain. If price is the issue, we win. Promote it.

[Affirm]

Winning is key.
We had only 4 home games this year. There was less product in terms of quantity, but demand did not increase - it decreased. The fact that there was less product in terms of quality (not just this year but the last 5 years + ) is part of what has made demand decrease.

[Affirm]

What are the comparative attendance figures for other private FCS schools, especially ones that are within 100 miles of 3 major FBS schools. What are comparative attendance figures with schools such as Wofford, Mercer, Samford, Elon, Richmond, Villanova, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, etc.?
Where do we stack up with them? For those we trail, what do they do, or have, that we do not? By the way, I am not sure any of those I named are within 100 miles of 3 major FBS programs?

Without boring you with figures, here is a recap:
Wofford- Slightly better than FU this year but everyone knows WC attendance figures are greatly exaggerated.
Mercer- Much better than FU.
Samford- FU is better.
Elon- Elon is better. This one has flipped recently because of their winning consistently.
Richmond- Better tha FU but their attendance is almost exact every game. Makes you wonder.
Villanova- FU is better.
Lehigh- FU is much better
Bucknell- FU is much better.
Holy Cross- HC is better
Lafayette- FU is much better.
Colgate -FU is much better even though they are undefeated.
Hou. Bapt.- FU is much better
I-Word- FU is much better.
ACU- Much better than FU, but they are new to D-1.
These are just based on this years figures.
FWIW- Someone has already mentioned this but we no longer have GSU and ASU that brought thousands as a visiting team. I bet UTC did not have 75 peeps yesterday. Current SoCon teams do not travel well at all. Citadel will but they have to be having a good season.

Thanks much !
Regarding Richmond, I think their new stadium was built deliberately small (Maybe 6-7,000 or so ? ) and they sell it out. Not sure how many of the tickets actually get used.

[sluggo]

The problem would probably already be solved if anyone knew the exact answer.
I can only make suggestions based on what I like or don't like.
I don't have any survey data to draw conclusions from; just my own experience.
I don't get excited about a home game against VMI or Gardner Webb.
That feeling of "Man, I don't want to miss this game" is not there for me.

[gofurman]

I think there are plenty of good ideas in this thread on how to build attendance once Furman starts winning games, and league titles, consistently. It’s up to the team and coaches now to make that happen. Nobody wants to watched sub-500 football. One thing that will really help is staying in the top 25 and getting home playoff games. Those games tend to be played while the FBS teams wait for their bowl games. I think there’s a huge opportunity to get butts in seats for meaningful playoff games, against teams with the potential to travel, and bringing teams to Greenville our local people might recognize.

I know we are on the right track, but we’ve lacked the constant winning seasons it takes to keep up attendance and the National reputation we once had. Win games constantly and we’ll see the people, reputation, and game day experience return to Paladin Stadium.

Trivia question: when was the last time Furman hosted a playoff game?
Answer: too long if you have to Google it.

you have a GREAT point.. and that one is one the administration !

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG and one of these wasn't an 'outbid' issue but rather something else??

We made the playoffs in 2013.. and SC State apparently outbid us. If you know anything about the finances of SC State that is HORRIBLE !! SC State can barely keep the lights on at that school. They have no money.. and yet somehow they outbid us for the playoff game?

You are right.. playoff games AT FURMAN generate excitement... playoff games in Montana? not so much...

We made the playoffs last year and yep, Elon outbid us... so off we go again. No home playoff game - the Woff game was due to seeding. that one I understand

2006 we made the playoffs and went off to Montana State.. I THINK that was a bidding game. If so, we got outbid again.

Maybe we hosted in 05? I know we did in 04.

But the point here is that if the administration wants to pump football to the next level we need to bid a little money for home playoff games. We shouldn't have to have a seed to get a home game.

I am really asking - am I incorrect on any of the 2017, 2013, or 2006 games being that we were outbid? Were any of those games due to the other team being a seed? I don't think so. But hey, I am wrong a lot !

appreciate a response to confirm or please correct me

[gofurman]

It is heartening to see the responses here. There are some good individual suggestions. It is clear that many people responding understand the equation between winning (including getting out of the gate fast) and the size of the crowd. For us, there is little we can do about the winning part. I know there are some wannabe coaches on the forum. I'm not aware we have anyone who is actually on the staff right now providing input.

I know some people like Sluggo like to schedule harder games. And I know he could beat me up.

But if it's costing us attendance that has to be taken into the equation. Why? Because I actually asked a few people to come with me this year and they asked "what's Furman's record.?" I responded "0-2. ". "Later 0-3. ". They said "I'll pass ". They don't have a tie to the school so they want to come only if we are winning.

Less attendance leads to less atmosphere leads to harder recruiting !! That's big. That's why I say maybe FBS, Elon and Gardner Webb. Get a win in there. Start 1-1.

Helps player morale. Helps practice our basics. Helps encourage some attendance. Gives us better shot at playoffs ! If we could quit these 0-3 starts it would do tons for playoff chances ... And recruits want to play where they can go to the playoffs. Heck, if we were 1-1 to start this year we would probably be in control of making the playoffs

Of course winning the first games help; but last year we would have thought it was a great idea to open with ETSU.
ETSU might just win the conference though. So there is no guarantee of wining the first games no matter who is scheduled.

We barely beat Gardner Webb the last time and they beat us the year before that, so I don't see any guaranteed win.
I also don't think anyone is going to pick up the Sunday paper to see "Furman beats Gardener Webb" and then rush out to get season tickets because "Wow, Furman must be good now that they beat GW."
But if Furman had played Clemson to a 48-35 defeat, that would have created more interest then beating GW by 50.


Playing better teams makes a difference :

https://247sports.com/college/appalachi ... ve-155433/

5.) No. 16 Appalachian State 26, No. 9 Furman 23 (3OT):
Oct. 19, 1991, Greenville, S.C.
Paladin Stadium (13,233)


4.) No. 6 Furman 34, No. 16 Appalachian State 31
Oct. 8, 2005 Greenville, S.C.
Paladin Stadium (14,138)



3.) No. 12 Appalachian State 33, Furman 28
Nov. 10, 2012, Boone, N.C.
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (28,896)

2.) No. 5 Appalachian State 16, No. 3 Furman 15
Oct. 12, 2002, Boone, N.C.
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (15,331)
“Miracle On The Mountain”

The incredible ending to the contest drew national attention, which ABC would tab as its Sports Radio Call of the Year.


1.) No. 5 Appalachian State 29,No. 3 Furman 23
Dec. 10, 2005, Boone, N.C., (Division I-AA Semifinals)
Kidd-Brewer Stadium (15,307)

I hear you sluggo - I do.

A few points

1) your top 3 games listed are AT APP STATE. (Kidd- Brewer Stadium) so that's really App State's attendance not Furman's.

2) All 5 games you list are versus a team that has a lot of fans - App State.. this has been discussed but part of OUR attendance number is obviously the fans the other team brings...
we don't have App State or GSU anymore in conference. In yesteryear, that was a given that they were coming to Gville every other year. I am sure the GSU games have high attendance numbers too.
The best other teams in our conference right now - Wofford, Samford and ETSU - don't bring many fans.. maybe 500? That's part of the attendance issue and also the atmosphere issue. When the other side has even 2000 fans it changes things.

3) Also, looking at the 2 games you list at Furman I think they are 91 and 2005.. That was a different era for ALL FCS teams - not just Furman. There was no ESPN+, every FBS game wasn't on TV etc. This TV/online coverage is hampering a lot of attendance apparently. That is hurting attendance at a lot of schools... it's not the same as 25 years ago when you had to go in person to watch an FCS game

I guess there is some net net effect.. do we play a harder OOC team where a win generates interest but the risk of a loss is higher.. or an easier OOC team where our win chance is higher which helps us maybe get to the postseason which then generates later interest.

One of the best attendances I have seen was our away crowd at Wofford - by making it that far in the playoffs we generated interest !!

***Now that goes back to my prior post - one thing that is on the administration is to bid so that Elon game last year is AT FURMAN !!!!!!!!

[cavedweller2]

I had 4 extra tickets to the Wofford game. Home side 50 yard line. They were #4 in the country. Offered them free to multiple people. Had one taker for 1 ticket. The majority of folks I offered them to said they were headed downtown to Fall for Greenville that Saturday. Clemson was off that day and none of their fans I know that consistently attend their Saturday circus wanted them. I guess we don’t need to try to compete with Fall For Greenville.