UTC QUITS

[The Jackal]

You guys are smart...correct FUBeAR if I’m wrong...

IF...

1) Mercer loses to Furman 4/3 (and/or to Samford 4/17)
2) VMI loses to ETSU 4/3
3) ETSU loses to Mercer 4/10
4) VMI loses to CIT 4/17

THEN...

the ChattaQuitta Mocks are your SoCon Football Champions for this season & the holder of the SoCon’s AutoBid to the Playoffs.

TRUE?

As I understand the rules, the best UTC can likely do is finish 3-5 in the conference.

They have wins over Furman, Wofford, and the Citadel.

They lost to Mercer.

Their games against ETSU, Samford, and Western Carolina will go down as no contests, and will count as losses in the standings.

I believe the UTC/VMI contest was originally "postponed," and now it is canceled. I believe that would also count as a win for VMI.

Now, I haven't chalked up all the doomsday scenarios in terms of the schedule, but I think there's a super small chance that a 3-5 team wins the SoCon autobid. I do not believe there has ever been a SoCon champ with more than two conference losses.

Aside from that, they won't be eligible.

[FUBeAR]

You guys are smart...correct FUBeAR if I’m wrong...

IF...

1) Mercer loses to Furman 4/3 (and/or to Samford 4/17)
2) VMI loses to ETSU 4/3
3) ETSU loses to Mercer 4/10
4) VMI loses to CIT 4/17

THEN...

the ChattaQuitta Mocks are your SoCon Football Champions for this season & the holder of the SoCon’s AutoBid to the Playoffs.

TRUE?

As I understand the rules, the best UTC can likely do is finish 3-5 in the conference.

They have wins over Furman, Wofford, and the Citadel.

They lost to Mercer.

Their games against ETSU, Samford, and Western Carolina will go down as no contests, and will count as losses in the standings.

I believe the UTC/VMI contest was originally "postponed," and now it is canceled. I believe that would also count as a win for VMI.

Now, I haven't chalked up all the doomsday scenarios in terms of the schedule, but I think there's a super small chance that a 3-5 team wins the SoCon autobid. I do not believe there has ever been a SoCon champ with more than two conference losses.

Aside from that, they won't be eligible.

OK - that doesn’t jive with what the SoCon did in hoops, does it?

SCHOOL RECORD PCT
UNCG 13-5 0.722
Wofford 12-5 0.706
Furman 10-5 0.667
Chattanooga 9-7 0.563
ETSU 8-7 0.533
VMI 7-7 0.500
Mercer 8-9 0.471
The Citadel 5-11 0.313
Western Carolina 4-13 0.235
Samford 2-9 0.182

If it did, wouldn’t the above numbers have been changed to show who forfeited to whom & all Teams showing 18 total games & the associated winning %...and the seeds have been determined after making these calculations? Was that done? If not, why wouldn’t they do it for hoops and would do it for Football?

Why won’t they be eligible (assuming you meant for playoffs)? - Teams only have to play a total of 4 games Spring + Fall to be eligible for the Playoffs - the Mocks played 5.

[The Jackal]

SoCon basketball went with a winning percentage threshold based on a minimum number of games played. https://soconsports.com/documents/2021/ ... iteria.pdf

Under those rules, I don't think the games not played counted in the standings - you just had to meet the minimum threshold of games.

In football, I think canceled games count as forfeits in the standings.

That may still cause issues with who gets the autobid, but I'm pretty sure UTC won't be in that discussion

The Mocs won't be eligible because they aren't playing. Even if they were undefeated, they are sitting out.

[FUBeAR]

SoCon basketball went with a winning percentage threshold based on a minimum number of games played. https://soconsports.com/documents/2021/ ... iteria.pdf

Under those rules, I don't think the games not played counted in the standings - you just had to meet the minimum threshold of games.

In football, I think canceled games count as forfeits in the standings.

That may still cause issues with who gets the autobid, but I'm pretty sure UTC won't be in that discussion

The Mocs won't be eligible because they aren't playing. Even if they were undefeated, they are sitting out.

That’s a lot of “Jackal-think” in that statement. Could be 100% correct or could be the opposite.

...and, after the BS ChattaQuitta has pulled, and the BS way they justified it to manipulate the system, you are going to put 100% faith & confidence that they wouldn’t hoist the SoCon Championship trophy if offered & participate in a chance to win a National Championship. FUBeAR ain’t buyin’ any WORDS Comin’ out of the Football Dept. in the Scenic City.

[Roundball]

SoCon basketball went with a winning percentage threshold based on a minimum number of games played. https://soconsports.com/documents/2021/ ... iteria.pdf

Under those rules, I don't think the games not played counted in the standings - you just had to meet the minimum threshold of games.

In football, I think canceled games count as forfeits in the standings.

That may still cause issues with who gets the autobid, but I'm pretty sure UTC won't be in that discussion

The Mocs won't be eligible because they aren't playing. Even if they were undefeated, they are sitting out.

That’s a lot of “Jackal-think” in that statement. Could be 100% correct or could be the opposite.

...and, after the BS ChattaQuitta has pulled, and the BS way they justified it to manipulate the system, you are going to put 100% faith & confidence that they wouldn’t hoist the SoCon Championship trophy if offered & participate in a chance to win a National Championship. FUBeAR ain’t buyin’ any WORDS Comin’ out of the Football Dept. in the Scenic City.

Chatty cannot win the NC because they will not be eligible to go to playoffs. "NCAA Automatic Bid Tie-breaking Procedures: The Conference champion shall be awarded an automatic bid to the NCAA FCS Playoffs, provided it is eligible to compete in the post-season under NCAA guidelines." Chatty has opted out for the rest of the season, so they are not eligible.

SoCon
Championship Determination Tie-breaking Procedures: The Southern Conference champion shall be the team that finishes with the best won-loss percentage in Conference games during the regular season. In the case that two or more schools finish with identical won-loss records, they shall be declared co-champions.

NCAA Automatic Bid Tie-breaking Procedures: The Conference champion shall be awarded an automatic bid to the NCAA FCS Playoffs, provided it is eligible to compete in the post-season under NCAA guidelines. In the event that co-champions are declared, the automatic bid will be awarded as follows:

1. In the case of a two-way tie, the automatic bid will be awarded to the winner of the game between the tied teams during the regular season;

2. In the event of a three-way tie, the won-loss records of the tied teams against each other is first considered (i.e., head to head concept). If the teams are still tied, then each team’s record against the highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered. If the tie is still not broken, the teams’ won-loss record against the next highest seeded team not involved in the tie is considered and so on down the line until the tie is broken. If the tie is still not broken, the team with the fewest points allowed among the tied teams shall be considered. If this does not resolve the tie, then the automatic bid will be determined by a random draw conducted by the Commissioner;

3. In the event of multiple ties after a three-way tie, the same procedure as used to break a threeway tie will be applied until the tie is broken.

[The Jackal]

SoCon basketball went with a winning percentage threshold based on a minimum number of games played. https://soconsports.com/documents/2021/ ... iteria.pdf

Under those rules, I don't think the games not played counted in the standings - you just had to meet the minimum threshold of games.

In football, I think canceled games count as forfeits in the standings.

That may still cause issues with who gets the autobid, but I'm pretty sure UTC won't be in that discussion

The Mocs won't be eligible because they aren't playing. Even if they were undefeated, they are sitting out.

That’s a lot of “Jackal-think” in that statement. Could be 100% correct or could be the opposite.

...and, after the BS ChattaQuitta has pulled, and the BS way they justified it to manipulate the system, you are going to put 100% faith & confidence that they wouldn’t hoist the SoCon Championship trophy if offered & participate in a chance to win a National Championship. FUBeAR ain’t buyin’ any WORDS Comin’ out of the Football Dept. in the Scenic City.

I mean, it's not exactly crystal clear.

I'm inclined to think they are making rules up as they go based on the current circumstances. For instance, the basketball rules were not published until February - decidedly well after basketball season had started and the tournament was approaching.

The SoCon has already announced that UTC's remaining games will be "no contest." Under the NCAA rules, as I understand them, that is a "game not played" and will be considered a forfeit in the standings.

This is the same thing that cropped up when the SoCon was going to prevent the Citadel from playing for the SoCon title this spring. The Furman/Cit game was going to be a no contest with Furman benefitting in the standings.

So, if all of UTC's remaining games are "no contest," under NCAA rules - as I understand them and has been reported by people understanding them better than I do - they will be counted as forfeits in the standings.

UTC will end up something like 3-5. Decidedly not good enough for the SoCon title, even if they were eligible, which they are not.

[FUBeAR]

Link where you are seeing a “no contest” is recorded as a forfeit. I’m seeing the opposite.

I did see 1 article that said a no contest by opponents from the same conference could be ruled by the Conference as a forfeit (loss) for 1 team & counted as a win for the opponent - but that was from 2013.

Also - just as Chatt “opted out,” they could “opt in” on Saturday 4/17 @ 3:31 PM ...Johnson City time...be declared SoCon Champs by virtue of a .750 win % and a H2H over also .750 (6-2) FU (or other scenarios) and take the AutoBid. “Hey - so happy - our Players just decided to opt in. Where’s our playoff game?”

I saw what the SoCon said about the citadel’s game with FU originally - so maybe that 2013 article was correct & the SoCon decided to hit the bellhops with a forfeit as “penance” for playing 4 games in the Fall...but that verbiage was specifically citing the citadel. They have not (yet) announced anything about Chatt’s wimping out of 4 games, nor Woffy wimping out of 1 as being counted as forfeits...and, maybe they won’t until all games are complete...and IF they have to do that to be “fair.”

[Mocs123]

What say you Mocs123?

Are you for all these players wimping out?

I just saw this. I signed up prior to the Chattanooga-Furman game but wasn't approved in time for that game.

I’m a fan, and love watching the Mocs play football, and as I’m sure you can agree, it’s even more enjoyable when the team you cheer for is winning, so I was disappointed that they quit, but looking back, playing less than a full season is not so surprising. Coach Wright has been against a spring season from the beginning (He was first asked about it when it was proposed for the SEC in June of last year). Coach Wright has stated in interviews multiple times that he didn’t think that playing a spring season was the right thing to do, particularly a full 8 game schedule like the SoCon was doing. I think at the time he said that was more games than any other conference was playing.

In one interview in November, Rusty said that he would be OK with a 3-4 game season and Athletic Director Mark Wharton said something along the same effect a couple of weeks later. I’m not saying it was planned, it’s probably just a coincidence, but I imagine Coach Wright is not too upset with the result.

In a “Chat with the Mocs” episode, Coach Wright had also said that the Mocs would NOT be playing after April 17 when asked about the playoffs and there was a real feeling that even if we had received a playoff bid this spring that Chattanooga would not have accepted it. That is hard for a fan to accept – as playing for SoCon championships and playoff appearances are what it’s all about as a fan.

Coach Wright has continually said that his team needed a real spring (we didn’t get a spring practice in 2019 either) as he has a bunch of young guys that have never gone through spring practice/workouts and that was better for the long term health of the program then playing in the spring. Coach also was upfront before the season started that he would play a bunch of players including a bunch of young guys, stating that fans (particularly at home games) would have to get their programs out as they wouldn’t recognize the names.

Rusty has said since the beginning that playing both a spring and fall season wasn’t good for his players, the program, and even on one occasion stated that he felt like playing so many games in the spring put the entire SoCon at a disadvantage compared to other conferences that weren’t playing as many spring games. He has said form months that his focus was on the fall and beyond and the spring season was not his focus. I’m not sure if it was the right attitude or the wrong attitude as I think we had a real opportunity to win the SoCon this spring (especially after beating Wofford and Furman – two regular contenders) but I do know that HE thinks it was the right call. I also know that as a fan, I just look at the 3 hours on Saturdays and therefore don’t have near the perspective on the program as he does.

I do think however, that he has put quite a bit of pressure on himself to succeed in the fall. If we go 10-1 people will be talking about what a good decision it was (or more likely just ignore this spring altogether), but if we go 6-5, this will not go away. Since I do think, Coach Wright feels like playing 20 games in a calendar year is not the best thing for his players or for the program. I respect him for making the tough and controversial decision. Make no bones about it, while I know he has the support of his players, and most of the fanbase, there are fans out there that are very unhappy with the decision.

[DeepPurple]

I would think he would want to win a So CON championship. They were in great shape to do so. I don't understand how his directs would allow him to do what they have done. I would think their kids would have wanted to play them all. 2020 and 2021 are crazy times that make no sense. Best of luck to the Mocs.

[FUBeAR]

So...you’re saying opting out was a decision made by Coach Wright and the Chatt AD.

So, it was not the Players opting out en masse on Monday & that Coach Wright & Chattanooga Athletics are lying to the SoCon & the public.

OK - it can’t be both ways.

Either 30+ Chattanooga Players ignored the other 70 Players on the Team & made the decision to prevent those 70 other Players from finishing the season; from getting game Reps playing the game they love in front of their family & friends; decided to not play these scheduled games that Chatt fans may have planned to attend months in advance; decided to disregard any impact their decision might have on their SoCon Football-brethren Players, some of whom, I’m sure were their HS Teammates, etc., etc., etc. - as FurmAlum said “wimped out.”

OR

This is a manipulation of a challenging situation for all by Coach Wright & Chatt Athletics to get to exactly what they wanted all along, ignoring that they are part of a conference, disregarding what this could mean for the SoCon Championship this season, SoCon playoff Autobid & At-large berths this season, and At-Large Playoff berths in the near future...and then lying about it.

Take your pick - neither is a very ‘good look.’

[Mocs123]

I do believe that 25ish players opted out on Monday (we had ~5-6 players that had opted out prior to the season). I also think that Coach Wright was happy only playing 4 games in the spring and focusing on fall. I have no idea how it really went down, but I have no reason to believe a conspiracy theory in either direction.

I have heard nothing to indicate that there is any dissention among the team and I really think the players really like each other and Coach Wright. (we've had at least one sport in the past few years where that wasn't the case).

I know Chattanooga was not in favor of the spring season, and while I hear there were other schools that weren't for it either, I think we were the most vocal about it. I do hate the fact that the SoCon won't get two teams in the playoffs this season (as if Chattanooga and VMI both won out - the SoCon would have gotten two teams in) as I am always for the SoCon getting as many teams as as possible and always pull for SoCon teams in the OOC and playoffs (even when it's ETSU which is really hard for me).

Good luck to Furman on the rest of your season.

[The Jackal]

Link where you are seeing a “no contest” is recorded as a forfeit. I’m seeing the opposite.

I did see 1 article that said a no contest by opponents from the same conference could be ruled by the Conference as a forfeit (loss) for 1 team & counted as a win for the opponent - but that was from 2013.

Also - just as Chatt “opted out,” they could “opt in” on Saturday 4/17 @ 3:31 PM ...Johnson City time...be declared SoCon Champs by virtue of a .750 win % and a H2H over also .750 (6-2) FU (or other scenarios) and take the AutoBid. “Hey - so happy - our Players just decided to opt in. Where’s our playoff game?”

I saw what the SoCon said about the citadel’s game with FU originally - so maybe that 2013 article was correct & the SoCon decided to hit the bellhops with a forfeit as “penance” for playing 4 games in the Fall...but that verbiage was specifically citing the citadel. They have not (yet) announced anything about Chatt’s wimping out of 4 games, nor Woffy wimping out of 1 as being counted as forfeits...and, maybe they won’t until all games are complete...and IF they have to do that to be “fair.”

There are a number of articles referencing the same thing, but the quote is something like this:

“After electing to play four games this fall, The Citadel was permitted to schedule only seven contests in the spring to remain within the NCAA’s 11-game regular season maximum,” Furman said in a release. “The SoCon Council of Presidents approved a plan for the Bulldogs to compete in seven league games with one no-contest against a randomly selected league opponent. Furman was selected as that opponent in a blind draw. The no-contest is a game not played and will be considered a forfeit in the conference standings only, per NCAA policies.”

https://footballscoop.com/news/breaking ... eits-game/

The "no contest" language is the same used by the SoCon when referencing the Mocs' season.

[gofurman]

I do believe that 25ish players opted out on Monday (we had ~5-6 players that had opted out prior to the season). I also think that Coach Wright was happy only playing 4 games in the spring and focusing on fall. I have no idea how it really went down, but I have no reason to believe a conspiracy theory in either direction.

I have heard nothing to indicate that there is any dissention among the team and I really think the players really like each other and Coach Wright. (we've had at least one sport in the past few years where that wasn't the case).

I know Chattanooga was not in favor of the spring season, and while I hear there were other schools that weren't for it either, I think we were the most vocal about it. I do hate the fact that the SoCon won't get two teams in the playoffs this season (as if Chattanooga and VMI both won out - the SoCon would have gotten two teams in) as I am always for the SoCon getting as many teams as as possible and always pull for SoCon teams in the OOC and playoffs (even when it's ETSU which is really hard for me).

Good luck to Furman on the rest of your season.

appreciate you on the board and sharing your thoughts. seriously. we need more of that