2023 Recruiting Diamond Cha23rs

[The Jackal]

We must remember there are some moving pieces regarding a commitment, paperwork, and an official offer.

Brooks was a very late commit, which makes me think it could be related to paperwork if he still is committed to Furman. But it's a guess.

It's also not uncommon for a kid to commit and wait until the February signing day to sing. There could be dozens of reasons for that.

I believe Darren Grainger committed in December and didn't sign the LOI until February.

[AstroDin]

Furman has offered and appears to be in the mix for Norte Dame TE Cane Berrong. Berrong is from Hartwell, GA. Berrong is another TE/WR hybrid 6-4 225 and was a four-star out of high school. Offers: Pitt, Temple, Coastal, GaSt, Furman.

Furman coaches are also following several other TEs that are in the portal, none of those have an offer listed.

[gofurman]

A few thoughts on receivers/TEs:

1. For much of the last 20 years, Furman really hasn't had an intimidating receiver corps. We've had a few slot guys that put up a lot of catches, but the unit as a whole has never really been one that makes headline news.

2. Recently, you've seen Furman really go after bigger pass catchers. Josh Harris, Ethan Harris, Kyndel Dean, and Luke Shiflett are all 6'1/'6'2. You see a lot of size in the guys they are targeting this season.

3. TE has been a difficult position for us to develop, but you see the concerted effort to focus on that position in recruiting under Roper. We used two TEs more this season than perhaps the last 20 years combined with the exception of the few years with Larry Hedden and Chris Truss. Miller was never really a prototype at the position - essentially a wide receiver in a running back's body. You can tell that Roper wants to run multiple TEs and we really need to start filling out that depth chart. Behind Miller and Gissinger this year was a grab bag of converted WRs and linebackers.

4. I like what I saw out of Ben Ferguson this year. Ferguson already looked pretty physical for a freshman, and may end up filling in some of the Ryan Miller snaps as a slot receiver working underneath the coverage.

5. I really like signing a guy like Holbrook. If the Herres comps are remotely close, then that's a huge weapon for the offense - a guy that can just out muscle defenders over the middle. You can cover guys like that, but they can frequently just out jump you.

6. Our recruiting early in Hendrix's tenure for pass catchers has been hit or miss.

• Class of 2017: 1 WR - Cam Burnette - who later transferred

• Class of 2018: Zach Peterson (transferred), Louis Hall (never or rarely played), and Dejuan Bell (showed promise, but never really made an impact). The 2018 class also had Ryan Miller, who definitely was a hit

• Class of 2019: Jake Kimmelman (transferred, I guess) and Wayne Anderson (RB until this year)

• Class of 2020: Noah Henderson (transfer who is now a backup TE), Kelton Gunn (rarely seen beyond special teams), and Bailor Hughes (rarely seen beyond special teams)

• Class of 2021: Josh Harris (stud), Jack Healey at TE (no longer on roster), Landon Whittemore at TE (no longer on roster),

So, over Hendrix's first 5 signing classes, he essentially found two impact receivers - Ryan Miller and Joshua Harris. Wayne Anderson had a solid season after having changed positions, and transfers Dean and Shiflett have added depth and have been key contributors.

Jackal, I completely agree. I want to be wrong but really our best "WR" most years is our TE. That's just a fact. And that's great that we have such absolute killer TEs but I think a little of what is needed to be "elite" is at least one more freak at WR. I recall beating Jacksonville State in 2004 playoffs and it was the combination of BRATTON and IKE WEST. That's the last time I felt we were truly scary at WR. Here is the box score:

https://static.jsugamecocksports.com/cu ... m#GAME.NEW

First score - West
Next score - West
Next score - Bratton

That team had the tools to really win it all. Crushing receivers. GREAT QB!!!. Felton -NFL FB. LBs that were killers, Defense that was a killer.

THough we may never see another Martin at QB that is a rule we cannot help.. now guys just transfer from FBS to FBS and don't have to drop down to FCS to keep playing like Martin did.

But Bobby J (I think they were his recruits) got us Bratton and West. There is no reason we can't do that again. Tough? Yes. But doable... That has been a missing piece on our O for a while. PURE SPEED at WR.


Appreciate you listing who we recruited each year.. That was a good "visual". Joshua Harris is a definite good one and upgrade. So glad we got him. Just one more would make it impossible for opposing D to cover all the options (both WR speedsters, Huff, RB, etc etc. Maybe with Roper having us throw more we can get WRs to commit a little easier? Hey Landon Parker at Wofford impressed me!! Get him

I do not believe it is a "fact" that our best receiver most years is a TE.

Ryan Miller led the team in receiving the last two seasons, but no one actually thinks he's a traditional TE. Furman primarily uses him as a slot receiver, which is where it looks like he'll play if he makes it to the NFL.

Other than Miller, the only season in the last 10 years or so where a TE led the team in receiving was 2012 and Colin Anderson. I think you are forgetting about guys like Thomas Gordon, Andrej Suttles, Adam Mims, and Jordan Snellings.

And while you keep highlighting "speed" I think that is too simple an explanation. Furman has plenty of speed. What they've lacked most years is depth and the inability to get consistent play from the QB position.

One reason Bratton and West were so effective is because we had two standout wide receivers on the same roster with a standout QB. Remember, no matter how fast someone is, someone's still got to throw the ball to them.

Agree with this. We need TWO ( or three) standout WRs. Right now I feel we have one super WR - Harris. And losing Ryan Miller drops another super TE - slot . We really could use at least one more great one. Defenses can’t double team but so many guys. They can help on one Harris if that’s our only great WR threat.

I do appreciate your list of WRs. As you say we always seem to have ONE killer. Mims etc. Gordon. But not TWO of that quality at the same time since Bratton and West

[The Jackal]

I think you are probably underselling the wide receiver group this year, though. Fans tend to pine for the past and maybe overlook what’s right in front of them.

Joshua Harris has become a true WR1 in this offense. He nearly tripled his production from his freshman year. His 48 catches, 700ish yards, and 5 TDs are effectively the equivalent of the career best years for Andrej Suttles and Thomas Gordon.

Harris arguably put up the most impressive campaign from a Furman wide receiver in years. He did that playing with a new QB and in a new offense.

Kyndel Dean finished third on the team in receiving, but added 44 catches. 44 catches would have led Furman’s offense in many seasons.

Wayne Anderson added another 39 catches and nearly 400 yards receiving. Again, our fourth receiving option most seasons isn’t anywhere near those figures.

And while you highlight the 2004 team, remember that they too were 10-3 and lost in the second round of the playoffs.

[The Jackal]

Since we are on the subject (at least while I'm thinking about it):

2004 Team: 34.5 ppg/449 total points in 13 games
2005 Team: 34.9 ppg/488 total points in 14 games
2022 Team: 33.1 ppg/430 total points in 14 games

Sure, these are different "eras," but the vaunted 2004 team averaged approximately 1 point per game and had 19 total points more than the 2022 team over the course of 13 games.

The 2005 team was slightly better offensively than the 2004 team, but had neither Bratton nor West. The two leading receivers on that team were Sprague and Stepp.

The 2004 and 2005 teams are well-regarded as among the best Furman teams ever, but I think everyone needs to realize the sort of season the 2022 team just put together. Most of that team is returning in 2023.

[The Jackal]

Another thought on recruiting:

While Furman is not going to be able to "replace" Ryan Miller they might - to borrow a phrase from baseball - "recreate him in the aggregate."

Miller was a hybrid TE/Slot/H back that was built like a fullback with skills like a wide receiver. Going back before him, Furman had frequently used athletic hybrid type players to man that position (Schumpert, Fletcher).

We seem to be focused more on recruiting "traditional" TEs - guys that are more in Gissinger's mold than they are the hybrid player.

Going forward, you might see Furman try to recreate Miller's production from a variety of angles. A kid like Ferguson - physical and shifty - might start being a more frequent target in the passing game out of the slot. You might see some of these newly acquired TEs work with Gissinger in two TE sets. Someone may end up becoming a skilled red zone threat - maybe the 6'4 Holbrook or the 6'7 Tormey.

[FurmAlum]

I think the 2022 team is every bit as good as the 2004 team and probably better on defense. And the 2023 team may turn out better than the 2022 team. Only time will tell.

We are losing 5 outstanding players but the rest of the team is coming back and we finally have a good, experienced QB.

Even with the loss of Miller, the receiving corps still looks solid.

J. Harris - All-SoCon, potential future All-American
Dean - Tall, got some speed, good hands
Shiflett, Physical, good hands
Anderson - Speedy, dangerous after the catch

All experienced players who have played a lot of football.

And I liked what I saw of E. Harris and Ferguson.

I am confidant the coaching staff will land 1-3 upper class/grad transfers that can plug in the gaps that we have.

[gman84]

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, and creating expectations that may or may not happen. My reflections. I think this past season was finally a BIG step in the right direction. What impressed me most was that we replaced good coaches who moved on, with coaches who got better results. Our new OC had to take the talent we had and mold it to his style of offense. Perfect example, Wayne Anderson Jr. We also had a transfer qb that did not arrive until August. My point is, I don’t think we have seen a finished product. Teams built the way CCH wants to build a team/program take a couple of seasons to ascend. A lot can happen good or bad between now and next season so future results are not guaranteed. I do feel for the first time in many seasons we are on the rise.
P.S.
Now we need to some how fix this MVC, CAA biased playoff selection process!!

[FUBeAR]

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, and creating expectations that may or may not happen. My reflections. I think this past season was finally a BIG step in the right direction. What impressed me most was that we replaced good coaches who moved on, with coaches who got better results. Our new OC had to take the talent we had and mold it to his style of offense. Perfect example, Wayne Anderson Jr. We also had a transfer qb that did not arrive until August. My point is, I don’t think we have seen a finished product. Teams built the way CCH wants to build a team/program take a couple of seasons to ascend. A lot can happen good or bad between now and next season so future results are not guaranteed. I do feel for the first time in many seasons we are on the rise.
P.S.
Now we need to some how fix this MVC, CAA biased playoff selection process!!

…and Big Sky…5 Teams…2 Top 4 Seeds… .500 record…0 Teams in Championship…1 Team in Semi’s…2 Teams in Quarterfinals

[gman84]

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, and creating expectations that may or may not happen. My reflections. I think this past season was finally a BIG step in the right direction. What impressed me most was that we replaced good coaches who moved on, with coaches who got better results. Our new OC had to take the talent we had and mold it to his style of offense. Perfect example, Wayne Anderson Jr. We also had a transfer qb that did not arrive until August. My point is, I don’t think we have seen a finished product. Teams built the way CCH wants to build a team/program take a couple of seasons to ascend. A lot can happen good or bad between now and next season so future results are not guaranteed. I do feel for the first time in many seasons we are on the rise.
P.S.
Now we need to some how fix this MVC, CAA biased playoff selection process!!

…and Big Sky…5 Teams…2 Top 4 Seeds… .500 record…0 Teams in Championship…1 Team in Semi’s…2 Teams in Quarterfinals

Agree! Too many peeps in my house with multiple devices killing my WiFi! Limited free time this morning before they awakened.

[gofurman]

Since we are on the subject (at least while I'm thinking about it):

2004 Team: 34.5 ppg/449 total points in 13 games
2005 Team: 34.9 ppg/488 total points in 14 games
2022 Team: 33.1 ppg/430 total points in 14 games

Sure, these are different "eras," but the vaunted 2004 team averaged approximately 1 point per game and had 19 total points more than the 2022 team over the course of 13 games.

The 2005 team was slightly better offensively than the 2004 team, but had neither Bratton nor West. The two leading receivers on that team were Sprague and Stepp.

The 2004 and 2005 teams are well-regarded as among the best Furman teams ever, but I think everyone needs to realize the sort of season the 2022 team just put together. Most of that team is returning in 2023.

While 2022 was a HUGE step forward... please hear me on that. HUGE !!!

The numbers you use are a little selective. In 2004 and 2005 we played App State and GSU just to get through the regular season. The SoCon is CLEARLY weaker now - with Wofford stinking (and I like Woff stinking ) and ETSU being vastly overrated -- than it was in '04 and '05 vs APP and GSU. Let's not compare those years ( 2004 and 2005 -vs- 2022) as equals... Our in-conference opponents were very much tougher then. Heck, App won the national title in 2005.

Oh, my fault, I do see that you noted these are different "eras" so I guess that is what you meant. Still, to average even the same points per game in a conference w App and GSU than a conference with a "3-win-in-2-entire-seasons" Wofford etc etc is actually somewhat significant. I'll take Ingle Martin, Bratton, West, FELTON (!) anyday.. I would say we were the best team in 2004. I would say we were a "contender" this year.. And that still depends on SDSU v NDSU in title.

Anyway, no worries.

I completely agree this year was a HUGE step forward !! I hope we plug a few holes... was hoping we could keep 4 of 5 on OL. But looks very promising for 23 !!

GoFurman !!!

[gofurman]

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, and creating expectations that may or may not happen. My reflections. I think this past season was finally a BIG step in the right direction. What impressed me most was that we replaced good coaches who moved on, with coaches who got better results. Our new OC had to take the talent we had and mold it to his style of offense. Perfect example, Wayne Anderson Jr. We also had a transfer qb that did not arrive until August. My point is, I don’t think we have seen a finished product. Teams built the way CCH wants to build a team/program take a couple of seasons to ascend. A lot can happen good or bad between now and next season so future results are not guaranteed. I do feel for the first time in many seasons we are on the rise.
P.S.
Now we need to some how fix this MVC, CAA biased playoff selection process!!

CAA... 5 teams selected.. that's crap

[The Jackal]

Since we are on the subject (at least while I'm thinking about it):

2004 Team: 34.5 ppg/449 total points in 13 games
2005 Team: 34.9 ppg/488 total points in 14 games
2022 Team: 33.1 ppg/430 total points in 14 games

Sure, these are different "eras," but the vaunted 2004 team averaged approximately 1 point per game and had 19 total points more than the 2022 team over the course of 13 games.

The 2005 team was slightly better offensively than the 2004 team, but had neither Bratton nor West. The two leading receivers on that team were Sprague and Stepp.

The 2004 and 2005 teams are well-regarded as among the best Furman teams ever, but I think everyone needs to realize the sort of season the 2022 team just put together. Most of that team is returning in 2023.

While 2022 was a HUGE step forward... please hear me on that. HUGE !!!

The numbers you use are a little selective. In 2004 and 2005 we played App State and GSU just to get through the regular season. The SoCon is CLEARLY weaker now - with Wofford stinking (and I like Woff stinking ) and ETSU being vastly overrated -- than it was in '04 and '05 vs APP and GSU. Let's not compare those years ( 2004 and 2005 -vs- 2022) as equals... Our in-conference opponents were very much tougher then. Heck, App won the national title in 2005.

Oh, my fault, I do see that you noted these are different "eras" so I guess that is what you meant. Still, to average even the same points per game in a conference w App and GSU than a conference with a "3-win-in-2-entire-seasons" Wofford etc etc is actually somewhat significant. I'll take Ingle Martin, Bratton, West, FELTON (!) anyday.. I would say we were the best team in 2004. I would say we were a "contender" this year.. And that still depends on SDSU v NDSU in title.

Anyway, no worries.

I completely agree this year was a HUGE step forward !! I hope we plug a few holes... was hoping we could keep 4 of 5 on OL. But looks very promising for 23 !!

GoFurman !!!

Not sure it is that clear cut.

Yes, in 2004 Furman still played in a conference with App State and Georgia Southern. App State wasn’t particularly good in 2004, going 6-5 and losing to an awful Chattanooga team and a bad WCU team. That App team beat Furman in the game Richie Williams went 40 of 45.

Beyond that, the 2004 schedule featured some really bad teams. Presbyterian was terrible. Elon was terrible. UTC was terrible. Gardner Webb, Western Carolina, and pre-SoCon Samford were all bad.

Furman played more then-ranked teams in 2022 (4) than in 2004 (3).

We might have been the best team in the country in 2004, but the fact remains that we flamed out in the second round at home. I suppose it’s notable that we lost in a game where our offense didn’t show up (2 touchdowns and several crippling turnovers).

Sure, App won a national title in 2005 (a year later) with a completely different QB. By the same token, Furman went 6-5 in 2003 (a year prior) with largely the same roster they had in 2004 and a different QB. The 2003 team was maybe the worst offensive Football teams Furman has fielded in the last 25 years.

None of this matters, but I just don’t see a lot of objective support for this notion that the 2004 team was clearly superior to the 2022 team. I was actually surprised at how similar their production was.

That’s not to take anything away from the 2004 team. They were excellent. Just don’t undersell what the team did this year.

[gofurman]

Since we are on the subject (at least while I'm thinking about it):

2004 Team: 34.5 ppg/449 total points in 13 games
2005 Team: 34.9 ppg/488 total points in 14 games
2022 Team: 33.1 ppg/430 total points in 14 games

Sure, these are different "eras," but the vaunted 2004 team averaged approximately 1 point per game and had 19 total points more than the 2022 team over the course of 13 games.

The 2005 team was slightly better offensively than the 2004 team, but had neither Bratton nor West. The two leading receivers on that team were Sprague and Stepp.

The 2004 and 2005 teams are well-regarded as among the best Furman teams ever, but I think everyone needs to realize the sort of season the 2022 team just put together. Most of that team is returning in 2023.

While 2022 was a HUGE step forward... please hear me on that. HUGE !!!

The numbers you use are a little selective. In 2004 and 2005 we played App State and GSU just to get through the regular season. The SoCon is CLEARLY weaker now - with Wofford stinking (and I like Woff stinking ) and ETSU being vastly overrated -- than it was in '04 and '05 vs APP and GSU. Let's not compare those years ( 2004 and 2005 -vs- 2022) as equals... Our in-conference opponents were very much tougher then. Heck, App won the national title in 2005.

Oh, my fault, I do see that you noted these are different "eras" so I guess that is what you meant. Still, to average even the same points per game in a conference w App and GSU than a conference with a "3-win-in-2-entire-seasons" Wofford etc etc is actually somewhat significant. I'll take Ingle Martin, Bratton, West, FELTON (!) anyday.. I would say we were the best team in 2004. I would say we were a "contender" this year.. And that still depends on SDSU v NDSU in title.

Anyway, no worries.

I completely agree this year was a HUGE step forward !! I hope we plug a few holes... was hoping we could keep 4 of 5 on OL. But looks very promising for 23 !!

GoFurman !!!

Not sure it is that clear cut.

Yes, in 2004 Furman still played in a conference with App State and Georgia Southern. App State wasn’t particularly good in 2004, going 6-5 and losing to an awful Chattanooga team and a bad WCU team. That App team beat Furman in the game Richie Williams went 40 of 45.

Beyond that, the 2004 schedule featured some really bad teams. Presbyterian was terrible. Elon was terrible. UTC was terrible. Gardner Webb, Western Carolina, and pre-SoCon Samford were all bad.

Furman played more then-ranked teams in 2022 (4) than in 2004 (3).

We might have been the best team in the country in 2004, but the fact remains that we flamed out in the second round at home. I suppose it’s notable that we lost in a game where our offense didn’t show up (2 touchdowns and several crippling turnovers).

Sure, App won a national title in 2005 (a year later) with a completely different QB. By the same token, Furman went 6-5 in 2003 (a year prior) with largely the same roster they had in 2004 and a different QB. The 2003 team was maybe the worst offensive Football teams Furman has fielded in the last 25 years.

None of this matters, but I just don’t see a lot of objective support for this notion that the 2004 team was clearly superior to the 2022 team. I was actually surprised at how similar their production was.

That’s not to take anything away from the 2004 team. They were excellent. Just don’t undersell what the team did this year.

We’re good. No worries

To y’all’s point - Check out the list we just made that I posted. Teams that overachieved They say “a lot to be Excited about in Greenville”

[FUwolfpacker]

Had missed this one the other day. Interesting offer. DL from Wingate.

Not sure the level of the competition but seems to have some good quickness.