SoCon today

[gman]

If the SOCON pulls in schools that we can't compete with , then we are a 3rd or fourth place finisher in the conference at best and a non playoff participant. That's what the last few years would have been like had Appy or GSU stayed. No rings, no playoffs but yeah probably somewhat of an increase in attendance in certain games but more of a downer than I feel right now. The pendulum can swing the other way nationally, it certainly has in Basketball.

We should want to play the best to be the best of the best. We should never be afraid of great competition. We should never shy away from wanting better teams in the SoCon.

[fufanatic]

Good thread on AGS about the SoCon for anyone that might not go on there. Overall, much of what is said has already been discussed here.

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showth ... -the-socon

[apaladin]

Good thread on AGS about the SoCon for anyone that might not go on there. Overall, much of what is said has already been discussed here.

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showth ... -the-socon

Thanks but I think I will pass on the SoCon bashing. Don't plan on going there for a while as I know FU is being ripped to shreads and there is no rebuttal possible.

[fufanatic]

Good thread on AGS about the SoCon for anyone that might not go on there. Overall, much of what is said has already been discussed here.

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showth ... -the-socon

Thanks but I think I will pass on the SoCon bashing. Don't plan on going there for a while as I know FU is being ripped to shreads and there is no rebuttal possible.

In this particular thread it was more of a discussion by conference folks about the conference. All teams are getting trashed, not just Furman.

[dinhead]

I still ask myself whether the SoCon needs to look to expand.

If the conference wants to be a "basketball conference," then I think it needs to start making that a priority. If it wants to stay competitive in football, then make that a priority.

What I've noticed is that this conference needs some life breathed back into it. Would it make sense to poach some programs from the OVC and Big South? Would the conference increase its visibility by adding some competitive football programs?

I think the SoCon needs to figure out if it wants to live in the past or look to the future.

This is just completely out of touch with reality. For one thing, there are zero FCS programs within the SoCon's geographic footprint (or anywhere else for that matter) that (1) would actually make a material difference to the conference's football strength and (2) would have any interest in joining. Since the SoCon has tanked as a football league, what incentive is there for another program to join, especially if it's not really a great fit in other respects?

But even that is a moot point because the conference would not abandon the round-robin schedule permitted by having 9 football-playing members.

Which brings us to the next issue: since the SoCon is now a basketball conference, it would be insane to sacrifice basketball in order to boost up FCS football. So now the bar is insanely high - somehow finding programs that would improve football while holding basketball at least steady (and be interested). Hint: no such program exists. And even if it did, adding more members dilutes the amount of NCAA money that each program receives, which indirectly would hurt the ability of the conference to compete.

The only realistic path to such dual improvement is VMI leaving (again). They are horrible in both sports and so it would be super easy to upgrade when replacing them.

There is also a fringe argument to be made that the SoCon should add 2 basketball-only schools in an effort to make multi-bid scenarios more plausible. But there is only one obvious target for such a move (Belmont), and the most likely outcome would be negative for existing members (fewer NCAA appearances and less money distributed). Something along those lines may get more consideration if the conference maintains its newfound strength for an extended period.

VMI horrible in football ? They finished 4th in the SoCon this year with a win over a Citadel team that beat both Georgia Tech and Furman.

[gman]

I still ask myself whether the SoCon needs to look to expand.

If the conference wants to be a "basketball conference," then I think it needs to start making that a priority. If it wants to stay competitive in football, then make that a priority.

What I've noticed is that this conference needs some life breathed back into it. Would it make sense to poach some programs from the OVC and Big South? Would the conference increase its visibility by adding some competitive football programs?

I think the SoCon needs to figure out if it wants to live in the past or look to the future.

This is just completely out of touch with reality. For one thing, there are zero FCS programs within the SoCon's geographic footprint (or anywhere else for that matter) that (1) would actually make a material difference to the conference's football strength and (2) would have any interest in joining. Since the SoCon has tanked as a football league, what incentive is there for another program to join, especially if it's not really a great fit in other respects?

But even that is a moot point because the conference would not abandon the round-robin schedule permitted by having 9 football-playing members.

Which brings us to the next issue: since the SoCon is now a basketball conference, it would be insane to sacrifice basketball in order to boost up FCS football. So now the bar is insanely high - somehow finding programs that would improve football while holding basketball at least steady (and be interested). Hint: no such program exists. And even if it did, adding more members dilutes the amount of NCAA money that each program receives, which indirectly would hurt the ability of the conference to compete.

The only realistic path to such dual improvement is VMI leaving (again). They are horrible in both sports and so it would be super easy to upgrade when replacing them.

There is also a fringe argument to be made that the SoCon should add 2 basketball-only schools in an effort to make multi-bid scenarios more plausible. But there is only one obvious target for such a move (Belmont), and the most likely outcome would be negative for existing members (fewer NCAA appearances and less money distributed). Something along those lines may get more consideration if the conference maintains its newfound strength for an extended period.

VMI horrible in football ? They finished 4th in the SoCon this year with a win over a Citadel team that beat both Georgia Tech and Furman.

Finishing 4th in a bad conference is horrible.

[FUKA61]

Hope recruits are not reading this.

[FUBeAR]

Good thread on AGS about the SoCon for anyone that might not go on there. Overall, much of what is said has already been discussed here.

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showth ... -the-socon

Thanks but I think I will pass on the SoCon bashing. Don't plan on going there for a while as I know FU is being ripped to shreads and there is no rebuttal possible.

In this particular thread it was more of a discussion by conference folks about the conference. All teams are getting trashed, not just Furman.

Yeah - only 1 woffy on there trying to cover his team’s poopy-diaper by saying FU’s diaper is much more poopier.

Not sure how that works when the anklebiters lost, at home, to an at-large Team that was only 1 game ahead of Charleston Southern (a Team FU curb-stomped) in their Conference standings and Furman lost, on the road, to an FCS Conference Champion.

Both diapers are plenty dirty & smelly...and that, along with the SoCon’s abysmal OOC record this year (and for the most part in prior recent years) & the SoCon’s failure to have any Team advance, significantly, in the Playoffs in recent years...has convinced FUBeAR to change his prior thinking and resolve that the SoCon is 9 toddlers with dirty diapers that need to decide, individually AND collectively, if they are happy playing NEC, Patriot League, & even Pioneer League level of FCS Football OR do they want to make the necessary changes (Courting/Adding Schools that ARE serious about FCS Football (JaxSt, KSU, APSU, et al), OOC FCS competitive scheduling requirements, etc.) & INVESTMENTS (Assistant Coach’s salary pools, Recruiting budgets, Full Cost of Attendance payments, work-around$ to any less than 63 unrestricted scholarship limitations, etc.) to play ‘big-boy’ FCS Football.

If no significant changes occur before the 2020 Season, we have our answer. Nothing at all wrong with the NEC, PL, or PFL. I believe those conferences and schools are doing what they want to do & are where they want to be. Didn’t think that’s what/where the SoCon and it’s Member Schools wanted to be...but maybe they/we do.

[gofurman]

Good thread on AGS about the SoCon for anyone that might not go on there. Overall, much of what is said has already been discussed here.

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showth ... -the-socon

Thanks but I think I will pass on the SoCon bashing. Don't plan on going there for a while as I know FU is being ripped to shreads and there is no rebuttal possible.

In this particular thread it was more of a discussion by conference folks about the conference. All teams are getting trashed, not just Furman.

Yeah - only 1 woffy on there trying to cover his team’s poopy-diaper by saying FU’s diaper is much more poopier.

Not sure how that works when the anklebiters lost, at home, to an at-large Team that was only 1 game ahead of Charleston Southern (a Team FU curb-stomped) in their Conference standings and Furman lost, on the road, to an FCS Conference Champion.

Both diapers are plenty dirty & smelly...and that, along with the SoCon’s abysmal OOC record this year (and for the most part in prior recent years) & the SoCon’s failure to have any Team advance, significantly, in the Playoffs in recent years...has convinced FUBeAR to change his prior thinking and resolve that the SoCon is 9 toddlers with dirty diapers that need to decide, individually AND collectively, if they are happy playing NEC, Patriot League, & even Pioneer League level of FCS Football OR do they want to make the necessary changes (Courting/Adding Schools that ARE serious about FCS Football (JaxSt, KSU, APSU, et al), OOC FCS competitive scheduling requirements, etc.) & INVESTMENTS (Assistant Coach’s salary pools, Recruiting budgets, Full Cost of Attendance payments, work-around$ to any less than 63 unrestricted scholarship limitations, etc.) to play ‘big-boy’ FCS Football.

If no significant changes occur before the 2020 Season, we have our answer. Nothing at all wrong with the NEC, PL, or PFL. I believe those conferences and schools are doing what they want to do & are where they want to be. Didn’t think that’s what/where the SoCon and it’s Member Schools wanted to be...but maybe they/we do.

Ouch. Knowing FUBeAR is a big SoCon proponent that’s quite a statement. But he’s right in a large picture. When has anyone in SoCon last made the final four? Us in 2005... what about the elite eight? Maybe Woff a few years ago

What scared me is reflecting on CH saying we had the “talent and depth” several times this year. Vs average SoCon team yes. nationally probably not. Though I still think we were better than we looked at seasons end. Play v VT and GSU was way above what we showed v APSU. Still I know that VT changed QBs (the VT QB we played stunk in comparison to the newer guy as some of us tried to point out mid-year but some here wouldn’t listen...) but I do think overall we we’re better early in year. Not sure what happened. Not sure how a team looks so flat. I’m befuddled

[fufanatic]

SoCon in the playoffs since App/GSU left:

2019: 0-2 (2 teams qualified)
2018: 1-2 (Wofford lost in R of 16, 2 teams qualified))
2017: 2-3 (Wofford lost to NDSU in R of 8, 3 teams qualified)
2016: 4-3 (best year of recent ... Wofford advanced to R of 8, lost in 2OT, UTC won a game, 4 teams qualified)
2015: 2-2 (2 teams qualified and advanced to R of 16)
2014: 1-1 (1 team qualified)
2013: 1-2 (Furman lost in R of 16)

Before that:
- Furman last current team to make the semis in 2005, also went in 2001, 1989, 1988 and 1985.
- Wofford went in 2003.
- Western Carolina went in 1983.

So in summary, 2016 was a solid year for the SoCon ... and it's gotten worse ever since.

[The Jackal]

SoCon in the playoffs since App/GSU left:

2019: 0-2 (2 teams qualified)
2018: 1-2 (Wofford lost in R of 16, 2 teams qualified))
2017: 2-3 (Wofford lost to NDSU in R of 8, 3 teams qualified)
2016: 4-3 (best year of recent ... Wofford advanced to R of 8, lost in 2OT, UTC won a game, 4 teams qualified)
2015: 2-2 (2 teams qualified and advanced to R of 16)
2014: 1-1 (1 team qualified)
2013: 1-2 (Furman lost in R of 16)

Before that:
- Furman last current team to make the semis in 2005, also went in 2001, 1989, 1988 and 1985.
- Wofford went in 2003.
- Western Carolina went in 1983.

So in summary, 2016 was a solid year for the SoCon ... and it's gotten worse ever since.

Well, also worth noting that in some of these cases the SoCon teams had to play one another in the second round.

If Wofford had been seeded this season, it would have been all but guaranteed we'd have gone back to Spartanburg.

[fufanatic]

SoCon in the playoffs since App/GSU left:

2019: 0-2 (2 teams qualified)
2018: 1-2 (Wofford lost in R of 16, 2 teams qualified))
2017: 2-3 (Wofford lost to NDSU in R of 8, 3 teams qualified)
2016: 4-3 (best year of recent ... Wofford advanced to R of 8, lost in 2OT, UTC won a game, 4 teams qualified)
2015: 2-2 (2 teams qualified and advanced to R of 16)
2014: 1-1 (1 team qualified)
2013: 1-2 (Furman lost in R of 16)

Before that:
- Furman last current team to make the semis in 2005, also went in 2001, 1989, 1988 and 1985.
- Wofford went in 2003.
- Western Carolina went in 1983.

So in summary, 2016 was a solid year for the SoCon ... and it's gotten worse ever since.

Well, also worth noting that in some of these cases the SoCon teams had to play one another in the second round.

If Wofford had been seeded this season, it would have been all but guaranteed we'd have gone back to Spartanburg.

Completely fair point. But at least it guaranteed one SoCon team advancing to the quarters!

[The Jackal]

SoCon in the playoffs since App/GSU left:

2019: 0-2 (2 teams qualified)
2018: 1-2 (Wofford lost in R of 16, 2 teams qualified))
2017: 2-3 (Wofford lost to NDSU in R of 8, 3 teams qualified)
2016: 4-3 (best year of recent ... Wofford advanced to R of 8, lost in 2OT, UTC won a game, 4 teams qualified)
2015: 2-2 (2 teams qualified and advanced to R of 16)
2014: 1-1 (1 team qualified)
2013: 1-2 (Furman lost in R of 16)

Before that:
- Furman last current team to make the semis in 2005, also went in 2001, 1989, 1988 and 1985.
- Wofford went in 2003.
- Western Carolina went in 1983.

So in summary, 2016 was a solid year for the SoCon ... and it's gotten worse ever since.

Well, also worth noting that in some of these cases the SoCon teams had to play one another in the second round.

If Wofford had been seeded this season, it would have been all but guaranteed we'd have gone back to Spartanburg.

Completely fair point. But at least it guaranteed one SoCon team advancing to the quarters!

This is true.

I can't remember the year (2016, maybe) where Wofford and the Citadel played in the second round. It was a real travesty as both of those teams would have beaten a lot of the rest of the FCS.

[gofurman]

SoCon in the playoffs since App/GSU left:

2019: 0-2 (2 teams qualified)
2018: 1-2 (Wofford lost in R of 16, 2 teams qualified))
2017: 2-3 (Wofford lost to NDSU in R of 8, 3 teams qualified)
2016: 4-3 (best year of recent ... Wofford advanced to R of 8, lost in 2OT, UTC won a game, 4 teams qualified)
2015: 2-2 (2 teams qualified and advanced to R of 16)
2014: 1-1 (1 team qualified)
2013: 1-2 (Furman lost in R of 16)

Before that:
- Furman last current team to make the semis in 2005, also went in 2001, 1989, 1988 and 1985.
- Wofford went in 2003.
- Western Carolina went in 1983.

So in summary, 2016 was a solid year for the SoCon ... and it's gotten worse ever since.

Fufanatic, Good data. Thank you. Given the law of averages and the number of games/years that you include in your post that’s strong numerics. Pretty obvious our conference ( us included) need to all step up if we want national respect again. Go Furman !

[sluggo]

(Courting/Adding Schools that ARE serious about FCS Football (JaxSt, KSU, APSU, et al), OOC FCS competitive scheduling requirements, etc.)

Seems like a tough sell with current attendance and payouts.

Realism is the SoCon is attracting D2, NAIA and restarted teams.