Spring Football Schedule

[FUBeAR]

I think we went down this rabbit hole to explain the drop off after Ingle Martin left. Nobody has mentioned the possibility that we dropped off because Ingle Martin left. At the time it looked like a HS quarterback playing in a Pop Warner league. That covers up lots of problems.

If we can win a national championship with dental students and nuclear physicists, great. Nobody else can, but maybe we’ll set a trend.

why you wanna call HKB60 & FUBeAR out like that?

[Affirm]

I think we went down this rabbit hole to explain the drop off after Ingle Martin left. Nobody has mentioned the possibility that we dropped off because Ingle Martin left. At the time it looked like a HS quarterback playing in a Pop Warner league. That covers up lots of problems.

If we can win a national championship with dental students and nuclear physicists, great. Nobody else can, but maybe we’ll set a trend.

If we can win .500, even .455, of our games with academically successful pre-dental, pre-med, nuclear physics, any kind of physics, pre-law, pre-economist, pre-Ph.D. in whatever areas, etc., (STEM or non-STEM) type students, GREAT. That would be better than winning conference and even national championships.
Yes, I said .500, even .455.
(To be clear, I am not disparaging ANY of the present student-athletes, not at all, regardless of major. I am proud of each and every one of them for being Furman students.)

[Furmanoid]

Agree sort of. I would say that if we have to use only Ivy ready ( or nearly so) guys, OK, but we need to adjust our expectations, that’s all.

[The Jackal]

Agree sort of. I would say that if we have to use only Ivy ready ( or nearly so) guys, OK, but we need to adjust our expectations, that’s all.

Not to be too argumentative, but a number of Ivy League schools are annual top 25 programs. They don't play in the post season, but a number of their squads would be a force if they did.

[Furmanoid]

No argument. Top 25 is a reasonable goal. Just saying it might not be fair to expect top 5 from our coach given the recruiting impediments.

[youwouldno]

No argument. Top 25 is a reasonable goal. Just saying it might not be fair to expect top 5 from our coach given the recruiting impediments.

I think it's reasonable to expect the Paladins to be the top program (by some margin) in the SoCon. Translating that to the national level is tough though . . . just as a general matter, it's very difficult to consistently perform at a level far beyond the conference standard. With the SoCon being a weak conference now, top 5 is particularly challenging.

[The Jackal]

No argument. Top 25 is a reasonable goal. Just saying it might not be fair to expect top 5 from our coach given the recruiting impediments.

I think it's reasonable to expect the Paladins to be the top program (by some margin) in the SoCon. Translating that to the national level is tough though . . . just as a general matter, it's very difficult to consistently perform at a level far beyond the conference standard. With the SoCon being a weak conference now, top 5 is particularly challenging.

Sounds like we need to set the standard.

[AstroDin]

I'm not sure how - Furman recruiting against Ivies - should lower our expectations for the program. Time will tell of course if our coaches and players rise to the level to be the team to beat in the SoCon, and also be able to compete and win in the playoffs.

Clay has been very transparent about where Furman needs to get better; playmakers, defensive line, offensive line, increase depth. You have to get players that fit into your program and in the case of Furman can do the school work. It is what it is. Obviously, CCH and staff have a pretty good plan going. We've gone from competing against BigSouth schools and losing quite a few battles to Wofford and Chatty to #2 ranked class in all of FCS by Hero Sports.

I think Furman will make us very happy Paladins in 2021.

[The Jackal]

Breaking news:

While I do not see a formal announcement (maybe I missed it), this graphic suggest that one of the weird oddities of college aesthetics has been addressed.

Samford's road uniforms now appear to match their home uniforms.

[gofurman]

I think we went down this rabbit hole to explain the drop off after Ingle Martin left. Nobody has mentioned the possibility that we dropped off because Ingle Martin left. At the time it looked like a HS quarterback playing in a Pop Warner league. That covers up lots of problems.

If we can win a national championship with dental students and nuclear physicists, great. Nobody else can, but maybe we’ll set a trend.

come on are you serious? I give you an example of a guy with a lot of FBS attention and you pick on…
so based on your point of view guess we can't win with guys like this too???

Landon Whittemore 6-4 220 TE Lafayette, TN
#4 ranked TE in Tennessee
Total offers: 23
FBS offers: UAB, Eastern Michigan, Ark ST, AFA
FCS offers: SoCon, Richmond, OVC, Big South, Ivies

Tommy Beuglas 6-1 230 ILB Buford, GA
Total offers: 20
5 FBS offers 1 Group of 5 offer: Maryland
Multiple offers from: SoCon, Ivy, OVC

You will never convince the perpetually dissatisfied to be anything other than perpetually dissatisfied.

OK, I’m convinced. I don’t want to see anybody use “ high academic standards” as an excuse ever again. Agreed?

I've been guilty of making excuses for Furman's recruiting. It is true, there are a lot more D1 programs than there used to be. We still have higher academic standards for admissions than most.

Hendrix is proving that those are just excuses.

I have weighed in on this before and we heard for years how our recruiting was strong even between 2007-2016 when we were a . 500 team at best ...then when I said "well, if we go 3-8 I guess it must be the coaching if the players are so good" I caught some heat. To their credit, those who posted that have now accepted that the recruiting was indeed lacking in spots. That from 2008-2016 we either didn't have the players (jimmys and joes) or coaching (Xs and Os). Or some combination thereof. It was frustrating to be on the board and hear how great the incoming guys were and then see us go sub .500 or whatever and yet be told the coaching was great too.. If we are .500 then something isn't working - allowing for injuris of course

So I hope we are a perennial but I still worry about academics. I will give you a good example why I "worry". Look at Duke or Northwestern. People will say - "you can sell the academics and get guys BECAUSE of the superior academics". This is true in LIMITED instances. But the net is a negative usually. IE, you are missing on more guys you could potentially recruit vs those few you gain because of your academics. Otherwise Northwestern and Duke and Vanderbilt would be winning - and they sure as heck are not! Who is winning? Bama, Clemson, Ohio State... NDSU (public) and JMU (public).

As Jackal and others have noted- the times have changed. Our academics have gotten' MUCH harder. And all these other schools have proliferated. freakin 400 more scholarships in our area now?!?! I say again, if only there were 2 - just TWO - new FBS/FCS schools near NDSU they would lose 10-15 of their players... guys who would prefer to start on day one at New school X instead of wait to play as a Redshirt Junior at NDSU.

[The Jackal]

That's just hindsight bias, though. Every fan thinks highly of their recruiting class. Most support the team, the staff, and the class they put together. You can't really evaluate a class until the years after they graduated. Neither you nor anyone else on this forum could fully evaluate a class when they are announced. All you have is aspiration for what they might be.

Your recollection may be different, but I don't recall anyone on this forum fawning over the coaching staff during the latter end of the Lamb years through Fowlers tenure. Furman fans are a more patient group than many fan bases, and a few of the perpetually dissatisfied were rightly shouted down due to their whining, bellyaching, and moaning.

If someone has a bullish attitude towards the team, that doesn't make them wrong. In the same way, just because someone gripes about the team when they are losing does not make them a "realist" or "telling it like it is." It makes them annoying.

[youwouldno]

No argument. Top 25 is a reasonable goal. Just saying it might not be fair to expect top 5 from our coach given the recruiting impediments.

I think it's reasonable to expect the Paladins to be the top program (by some margin) in the SoCon. Translating that to the national level is tough though . . . just as a general matter, it's very difficult to consistently perform at a level far beyond the conference standard. With the SoCon being a weak conference now, top 5 is particularly challenging.

Sounds like we need to set the standard.

I meant it more like the typical 'good' SoCon team. Even if a particular program transcends a mediocre conference, they might not get many (or any) chances for 'signature' wins in conference play, which is a huge problem. So it is partially outside of Furman's control.

[AstroDin]

I don't think we're going to have to wait too long to see if Furman has improved in the Jimmy & Joe's.
Going into the spring season of 21 Furman had five redshirt seniors - those guys are the last players that Fowler signed. My guess 2-3 starters.

The true seniors, redshirt juniors - Clay's first recruiting class shaped by players already committed, and the staff quickly jumping in on some players has been a very productive class. Adrian Hope, Devin Wynn, Elijah McKoy, Ryan DeLuca, Dimarcus Clay, Jake Walker, Darius Kearse, Landon Lawrence, Matt Sochovka, London Lewis, Ross Detamore, Cole Neeley, Jack Hardin, Ben Page, Parker Stokes. My guess is four starters out of this group.

>>> 15-16 starters for the 2021 teams will be Fr-RSFR-So-RSSO-Jr these classes were ranked higher by FCS media and if you go by offers we started to see players consistently commit to Furman with multiple FBS offers and we brought in players that Furman beat out against multiple SoCon foes.

GoFu - you're right - I've been very bullish on recruiting through the years (some developed some were misses) I've tried to be more level-headed and understand that just because a guy is throwing around high schoolers doesn't mean he can do it at the FCS level.

Lots to be excited about and cautious about > CCH and Quarles will finally have a returning starter QBs for the first time in their tenure. Furman has invested heavily in offensive linemen - I doubt few including NDSU have as many offensive linemen on scholarship - many schools fill the depths with some walk-ons. Will they deliver? The 2021 linebacking corp is Ken Lamedola's. Gilby is the man, Jalen Miller I feel is gonna be a great one, but we'll see. Will our defensive line finally be a strength again? Our backend defense is gonna be young on paper lots of talent and better size will that make a difference? And finally… what does excite me is Furman has invested heavily in playmakers. Our running back depth and talent is impressive - we could see the number 3 tailback (Wayne Anderson) be the impact player in 2021. Furman has completely rebuilt the receiving corp - with the additions of Henderson, Hughes, and Gunn and the return of Bell and Shiflett it's hard to not be an optimist about the Din receivers.

[FUBeAR]

I don't think we're going to have to wait too long to see if Furman has improved in the Jimmy & Joe's.
Going into the spring season of 21 Furman had five redshirt seniors - those guys are the last players that Fowler signed. My guess 2-3 starters.

The true seniors, redshirt juniors - Clay's first recruiting class shaped by players already committed, and the staff quickly jumping in on some players has been a very productive class. Adrian Hope, Devin Wynn, Elijah McKoy, Ryan DeLuca, Dimarcus Clay, Jake Walker, Darius Kearse, Landon Lawrence, Matt Sochovka, London Lewis, Ross Detamore, Cole Neeley, Jack Hardin, Ben Page, Parker Stokes. My guess is four starters out of this group.

>>> 15-16 starters for the 2021 teams will be Fr-RSFR-So-RSSO-Jr these classes were ranked higher by FCS media and if you go by offers we started to see players consistently commit to Furman with multiple FBS offers and we brought in players that Furman beat out against multiple SoCon foes.

GoFu - you're right - I've been very bullish on recruiting through the years (some developed some were misses) I've tried to be more level-headed and understand that just because a guy is throwing around high schoolers doesn't mean he can do it at the FCS level.

Lots to be excited about and cautious about > CCH and Quarles will finally have a returning starter QBs for the first time in their tenure. Furman has invested heavily in offensive linemen - I doubt few including NDSU have as many offensive linemen on scholarship - many schools fill the depths with some walk-ons. Will they deliver? The 2021 linebacking corp is Ken Lamedola's. Gilby is the man, Jalen Miller I feel is gonna be a great one, but we'll see. Will our defensive line finally be a strength again? Our backend defense is gonna be young on paper lots of talent and better size will that make a difference? And finally… what does excite me is Furman has invested heavily in playmakers. Our running back depth and talent is impressive - we could see the number 3 tailback (Wayne Anderson) be the impact player in 2021. Furman has completely rebuilt the receiving corp - with the additions of Henderson, Hughes, and Gunn and the return of Bell and Shiflett it's hard to not be an optimist about the Din receivers.

Nice breakdown!

[gofurman]

That's just hindsight bias, though. Every fan thinks highly of their recruiting class. Most support the team, the staff, and the class they put together. You can't really evaluate a class until the years after they graduated. Neither you nor anyone else on this forum could fully evaluate a class when they are announced. All you have is aspiration for what they might be.

Your recollection may be different, but I don't recall anyone on this forum fawning over the coaching staff during the latter end of the Lamb years through Fowlers tenure. Furman fans are a more patient group than many fan bases, and a few of the perpetually dissatisfied were rightly shouted down due to their whining, bellyaching, and moaning.

If someone has a bullish attitude towards the team, that doesn't make them wrong. In the same way, just because someone gripes about the team when they are losing does not make them a "realist" or "telling it like it is." It makes them annoying.

Jackal, that's not true. I didn't think those were great recruiting years. I never did - ask Astro . I am straightforward - I fully admit that I DID think Fowler was going to be a great hire. I clearly (and hate that this is the case) missed on that. Those were the weirdest OL schemes we ran in those days but obviously I didn't know that would be the case and I doubt many did.. man, those were weird things. As you said in those days, " just put a hat on a hat.. Keep it simple" - whatever we were doing wasn't working. But no, I certainly didn't see that coming

And yes, many of us fawned over Fowler's hire. Maybe not the final year or so but many here - including myself - were excited by his hire hoping he would return us to a toughness and run-first system we lacked during the BL years.
\
Also, griping is annoying. You are right. But saying we need to improve is REALITY when we were going 3-8 or whatever. We still need to improve. You always want to improve.

There is a diff in griping and reality - here is my reality:
- CCH has been a great hire. I hope we win A LOT
- He seems to do great things w our OL !!!
- We are improving .. two playoffs in the past 3 years and a SoCon title!
- OBJECTIVE: that SoCon title isn't worth what it was. Basically you outlast Wofford or ETSU(??) and you win it the past few years.
- I hope we continue to improve .. and honestly, that the SoCon regains respect and improves... I want us to be at least a 2-bid league. Minimum
- The last time we went to the playoffs under BL was 2006 -after some phenomenal years in 04 and 05
- We went to the playoffs once under BFowler.. 2013. Very little offense that year. And that's being generous. Even during that time some here argued his success was sustainable with the worst O but great D and special teams. Later, some of those same people came back and admitted they were wearing purple glasses and that they knew that while you can win with great D and special teams.. you need at least a middlin' offense. Which we did not have.
- BIG KUDOS - HUGE - to Astrodin for admitting where he was positing that our recruiting was good enough when it was already becoming clear it was not. That takes a big man.
- You can know about recruiting about 3 years in. If a Redshirt Sophomore isn't doing anything at all it's probably not a strong recruit. And we were seeing a lot of this in some positions - OL, DL etc - in those years. Heck, you can know the recruiting is off pretty quickly - as you have noted - when we are playing QBs at LB and DEs at DT and getting pushed around up front. Also, when you keep having to fill gaps several years in a row something isn't right. So you don't have to wait 4/5 years to know if recruiting is at least "good".